MUST HAVE things for next Xara...

[pauland]

I think TG is more about getting on together rather than falling out. I've been told worse.

[Artyboots]

I agree. We should play nice. I was not offended, except by the angry response to Michelle's fairly normal suggestions.

This section baffles me. People who don't work for Xara often respond to suggestions in the Dear Xara section (although no response is usually required). And they usually respond negatively, even if someone is only expressing ideas. Generally speaking, people who make suggestions and have ideas are not being critical of Xara. I think it's nice of people to take the time to think properly about Xara, and go to the trouble of posting here. It's free market research and feedback for Xara, and it is entirely a matter for Xara whether they want to listen or not. Presumably they do, or why have the section? It's also very nice that the Xara fanbase is so loyal, but how can there ever be any discussion if ideas are dismissed out of hand? Many features in Xara are of no interest to me in my work, but I am always interested to hear which are a must-have for other people.

If suggestions make experienced Xara users annoyed, then perhaps it would be better if they were submitted privately to Xara, so people can express their thoughts freely.

Perhaps it is a cultural thing, but must-have here is not an insult. It must mean something different in different countries? Perhaps the caps annoyed more than the words? But that's just typing.

A

[handrawn]

there has been no anger at all in this thread - frustration maybe

now a discussion is good - and this is exactly what we have here - except that Michelle is choosing not to take part, but to be defensive

it's true that language is sometimes a barrier

for example to me 'go to hell' is about as offensive as saying 'bullshit' that is hardly at all; and 'must have' is a meaningless advertising soundbite cliche - but there you go, we are all different...

[pauland]

I agree. We should play nice. I was not offended, except by the angry response to Michelle's fairly normal suggestions.

I don't see any angry responses.

This section baffles me. People who don't work for Xara often respond to suggestions in the Dear Xara section (although no response is usually required). And they usually respond negatively, even if someone is only expressing ideas. Generally speaking, people who make suggestions and have ideas are not being critical of Xara. I think it's nice of people to take the time to think properly about Xara, and go to the trouble of posting here. It's free market research and feedback for Xara, and it is entirely a matter for Xara whether they want to listen or not. Presumably they do, or why have the section? It's also very nice that the Xara fanbase is so loyal, but how can there ever be any discussion if ideas are dismissed out of hand? Many features in Xara are of no interest to me in my work, but I am always interested to hear which are a must-have for other people.

The only thing about Michelles suggestion that bothered me was that it was a must-have. Ironically she also pointed out that her reference application artisteer which did support fluid layouts was also lacking in some ways. The majority of my post was about why artisteer supported fluid layouts and why Xara currently did not, so she might have some understanding of the technologies. Nothing more.

If suggestions make experienced Xara users annoyed, then perhaps it would be better if they were submitted privately to Xara, so people can express their thoughts freely.

I'd hate that. Michelle made a perfectly sensible suggestion and none of the respondents were angered by it.

Perhaps it is a cultural thing, but must-have here is not an insult. It must mean something different in different countries? Perhaps the caps annoyed more than the words? But that's just typing.

A

Caps is rather like shouting and the insistence that it's a must-have is presumptious, not an insult. I'd be interested in knowing why Michelle feels this is a must-have. Most designers make a conscious decision to use fixed width design even though they are capable of developing sites in a fluid layout, simply because it gives them greater control of the design layout rather than letting the browser decide how the page should look.

I have no problem (nor do I think anyone else has) with the request for fluid layout support. I'm not a fan of it being described as a must-have. I really wish Michelle had had been able to explain her insistence that this is a must-have feature so that either we would see why it is so important or she might look at it differrently or we might agree to disagree.

As to whether there should be debate on Dear Xara - you are right it has often been frowned upon.

[gwpriester]

I have been moderating this forum since before it was TalkGraphics. I don't remember how long is has been but my sense of it is over 10 years.

During this time I have noticed a tendency for new users to want Xara to have the tools and features with which they are familiar and which often are missing from the Xara product they are using or trying out. So my guess is this is a rather usual tendency.

My advice is always to work with Xara, or any new application you are learning, and then after a while, the logic of the application starts to sink in and the user gets into the flow and rhythm of the application. It is not unlike learning a new language. When you start to use it in your dreams, you are getting into the rhythm and flow.

If you look at the very excellent work that is created with Xara products, both artistic and web related, you can see visual evidence that the program works.

So, IMHO the most "must have" feature is not missing from the application, it is missing from the user. The user Must Have an open mind. The user Must Have patience to work with the application for a while to see how it works. The user Must Have an open mind and say, OK, here's a problem. I know how I would handle it in XYZ application, so how do I do this in Xara.

And after the user has shown some skill and knowledge of the application, then the user Must Have the right to ask for improvements.

I Must Have put everyone to sleep. ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz

[Artyboots]

>>And after the user has shown some skill and knowledge of the application, then the user Must Have the right to ask for improvements.<<

Maybe posts in Dear Xara should be restricted to people who have demonstrated such skill and knowledge. At the moment anyone can post, and look what happens! You need to clear out riff raff like me!

Must say, though, that I think feedback from newbies is as valuable. It's how you can tell whether the interface design is hitting the mark, or if marketing needs adjusting - for starters.

On a totally different subject, kinda, Dear Xara, any update on the manuals for Designer Pro 7? Am loving the program but the help file isn't quite enough for me. I am pretty dim.

Happy Sunday all. Try to relax.

Ali

[pauland]

I don't mind anyone, even newbies asking for stuff. I think it's just the assumption that it's the only possible way to do something that is irritating. The truth is that nothing is a must-have and we could all build magnficent websites using notepad if we put in the time.

I'd hope that anyone asking for a feature might also explain why it is so important to them and be prepared to hear alternative solutions to achieve the same result in the meantime or realise they might not want or need that feature after all.

[mwenz]

I think that in general, posts in this forum section should simply be left alone by other posters.

A couple (non-inclusive) exceptions:

(1) a person requests something that can be accomplished in a way that is merely a different way from a reference application.
(2) someone asks for a request to be clarified for a variety of reasons.
(3) add your own reason here

But nay-saying, snide or otherwise rude remarks by anyone shouldn't be tolerated by the moderators. This is the Dear Xara section, not the "What do y'all think of my idea" forum.

Personally I am glad my wish-lists to Santa when I was a little boy were not picked apart piece-by-piece by my parents, brother, or friends.

Just another unwanted 2-cents of thought.

Take care, Mike

[handrawn]

Hi Mike

the moderators are here to keep order, they are not here to moralise on manners, that is a big mistake IMO - Nannyism is for use with small children

it is life that teaches manners, and in particular it teaches how good they are for getting others to help you; it does a far better job that I ever could hope to....

as far as discussion goes, in a previous regime they were actively discouraged in 'Dear Xara' but currently there appears no dedicated mod for it, so ultimately it is up to admin [which it probably would be anyhow]

and your thoughts are always welcome Mike, you know that - but I question the metaphor - as a child I was often told about the disadvantages about what I wanted for Christmas etc, and was known on occasion to change my mind, even as a small child - there is a lesson there too...

[bwood]

As a newbie user of both Xara Pro 5 and Web designer I have always found there is a work around. Migrating from the Adobe products I've found Xara software marvellous. There is always a "demand" for new features immediately. We live in that kind of world. My key answer is "work around". I went thru many 'work arounds' with my former software. I would much rather have a feature set what works 98% of the time - than untested "new" features that work 60% of the time. Yup I'm a fan.