Can I say how much I hate.. ?

[DukeofThomas]

Overall, I like the functionality of the Alignment dialog, but...

I have two monitors side by side with my Xara window full-screen in the left monitor and all my galleries open in the right monitor, by default. There is one thing I hate over and above everything else about the Alignment toolbar. Let's say you launch it and leave it open. Then you launch or select another toolbar like a Bitmap or Layer Gallery which then sits on top of it. The Alignment toolbar button is now greyed out so you can no longer select it. But because the dialog is behind all of your other dialogs you don't know where it is. You have effectively lost it unless you close all other toolbars / galleries until you find the one it is behind. That sucks über bitter lemons in my book.

Yes, that's bad/lazy design 101. Did nobody at Xara discover this during testing? These things are BASIC and should be implemented from the very beginning when writing a program.

[DukeofThomas]

Do you really like the user interface of Flash compared to Xtreme's? If you had stated you liked Illy's instead of Xara's I might not replied and said "well everyone has their own opinions" and left it like that but when you have to work in such a small space due to the terrible user interface set up I have to strongly disaggree. When Xtreme came out with its dockable galleries etc. the first questions in this forum was how do we make them undockable.

Nested layers I would say is something that I would like but its not a the top of the list. The aligment tool works and it works easily and it can be brought to use with the press of 3 Keys so the only difference is that the operation of the aligment tool is that you have to use drop down boxes instead of a graphic button and if that is your complaint thats sad.

No, it isn't 'sad', it's a completely justified complaint. Drop down menus are a waste of time. They are almost NEVER implemented out of necessity. The ONLY time they are necessary is when the space on the screen is insufficient to show ALL of the options in the drop down menu. So far, having used hundreds of programs, I've never seen that occur. You simply show ALL of the options, immediately, without making the user click, click, and click again, every single time they want to adjust something. It's BAD design. You are plainly unable to think outside of what Xara have given you - now THAT'S sad...

[DukeofThomas]

I disagree.

I think that the natural way to align stuff is to say, "See those things? Align them all with the left-hand edge of that shape there."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; the best align/distribute/resize tool that it's ever been my pleasure to use comes from a database form-design tool. For ease of use, no other method comes close.

Select objects, choose option, point to shape.

Job done. No mistakes. First time, every time. All stored inside a single fly-out button.

Yes, that's exactly it. That's the way ALL alignment tools should look. One fly-out button. The same goes for just about every other use of the wretched drop down menu - use a fly-out menu, with ALL the options visible! If you have fifty options to choose from, how much easier is it to have them all displayed at ONCE in the fly-out menu, rather than having to click on a drop down menu, scroll down, and then make sure you click on the right option. Drop down menus suck, they are rubbish, end of story.

[DukeofThomas]

Xtreme's alignment box works and it is simple.
I have no problems with it at all.

Well, I've just had a go with it, and it's completely rubbish. It's great if you're a five year old who's never come across the 'align' function ever before, but for anybody who wants to USE it more than once in their lifetime, the fly-out box mentioned above is infinitely preferable. Do you actually like clicking and selecting items from drop down menus unnecessarily? How is this quicker or easier than two intuitive clicks - once to bring up the fly-out menu, once to select the option you want? The current drop down menu system is absurd - you have to use TWO of the wretched things half of the time. It's bad enough using one.

[remi]

You are plainly unable to think outside of what Xara have given you - now THAT'S sad...

Duke, please consider: This is a friendly forum.

The object alignment dialog box is really not the most important function in a drawing program and your words sounds so "unbalanced". So, sit down with a cup of tea and create a nice drawing with Xara Xtreme...

Regards,
Remi

[DukeofThomas]

Well, the point is that there's only 9 options and they are all displayed when you are align/distibuting things. There's nothing to remember!

However, with Xara's method, all the options are hidden and there are no clues as to what the keyboard/mouse shortcuts are.

With Xara's method, first you have to remember the keyboard shortcut to get the Align/Distribute dialog on-screen. Or click through the menus to get Arrange | Alignment... (Newbie thinks: does this do 'Distribute' as well?)

Then, with the dialog on-screen, you try clicking around the place (with or without Ctrl and/or Shift) until one of them happens to do whatever it is that you wanted. Success! You breathe a sigh of relief and click again to apply and close the dialog box.

Or, (and this is hilarious!) you choose from drop-down menus and read(!) menus until you get to the one you want! I don't think I could make a more counter-intuitive system!

With so few buttons on display, and the icons on them being so clear, you don't really need/want some other person's idea of conformity forced upon you. I mean, should vertical alignment come above or below horizontal? Should it be left or right of the align functions? It doesn't matter!

Ok. If you like. To be honest, I didn't notice the change between yours and mine. The important thing is that all the functions are shown there whenever you need them.

Maybe I didn't make it quite clear: the 3 x 3 set of buttons are a fly-out which appears when you click on the toolbar button. You can then either click or slide the mouse to the function you want. When you let the mouse button up, your function is chosen and the fly-out disappears and you then click on the thing that you want your actions to be based upon.

There are no worries as to which item is the uppermost one or which was the drawn last or in which layer which may or may not be above another layer. You simply say -- as you do in your mind -- "Align this stuff with that."

Yes, I agree that user interfaces can be a problem.

You only have to look at Xara's for the perfect example of how not to do it!
*

Beautifully put, Brian. The fact that some people prefer the non-intuitive, labour intensive Xara way, can only be down to habit and custom, not good design. I use a program at work that forces me to use drop down menus all of the time, and in every single case, a fly-out menu would save me literally an hour each day. Multiply that by every member of staff who use this piece of **** (I can't name it for fear of being sacked!) and my company are wasting literally tens of thousands of pounds in wasted staff time each year. But because the idiots who bought the system know sod all about computers, and especially computer interfaces, they seem to be almost afraid to ask the software company to fix this dumbass problem. I share your frustration. Bad programmers, who lack empathy, pure and simple.

[masque]

Tom
I bet you're mug is never half full is it? Always half empty.
No program, is perfect of all the 'hundreds' you've used the fact that you're now trying Xara means you're still looking.
Do a drawing or something and post that; there are plenty of people besides you pointing out areas that need improvement. Perfection is a gradual process.
Derek

[remi]

Multiply that by every member of staff who use this piece of **** (I can't name it for fear of being sacked!) and my company are wasting literally tens of thousands of pounds in wasted staff time each year. But because the idiots who bought the system know sod all about computers, and especially computer interfaces, they seem to be almost afraid to ask the software company to fix this dumbass problem. I share your frustration. Bad programmers, who lack empathy, pure and simple.

Did you discuss this problem in your company? What were the reactions to your criticism?

[DukeofThomas]

Duke, please consider: This is a friendly forum.

The object alignment dialog box is really not the most important function in a drawing program and your words sounds so "unbalanced". So, sit down with a cup of tea and create a nice drawing with Xara Xtreme...

Regards,
Remi

I'm sure it is a friendly forum. I merely stated that he was 'sad' - who used the phrase first?
Should we not discuss the alignment function then? Anything else off limits? Like all of Xtreme?

[DukeofThomas]

Did you discuss this problem in your company? What were the reactions to your criticism?

Yes, I discussed it with my manager. She doesn't know the first thing about computers and is of the opinion that she mustn't upset the company we have paid hundreds of thousands of pounds to, by asking them to change (i.e. improve) the software... Go figure.
That's what you find a lot in life: most people know nothing about user interface design, especially programmers. Most people learn software and no matter how bad the interface is, they defend it as if it's 'the right way', precisely because it was so HARD for them to learn! It's almost like a religion to people.