Major New Product Annoucement

**-=Drifter=-** · 02 November 2006, 12:54 AM

And it would cost $4,999.95!!!!

**pauland** · 02 November 2006, 12:59 AM

OK, if Adobe software is so overpriced and rubbish and Xtreme is cheap and good, why are people still buying Adobe software?

Write your answer in the box provided, and provide any workings.

If software quality and price aren't the major factors in the success of Xtreme and Adobe Illustrator, explain how going open source will reverse the fortunes of these products.

Write your answer in the box provided, and provide any workings.

**Nostaw** · 02 November 2006, 01:00 AM

Uhm, i'd rather PAY and have a product that is upgraded with useful features than wasting my time and complaining in these forums because this and that is buggy or other basic features are missing.

What are you willing to sacrifice? Your loyalty doesn't help rather than your money.

How else do you expect to get updates? Pay 79 for the rest of your life with no updates whatsoever, sure, there is a solution! Wake up.

**Nostaw** · 02 November 2006, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by pauland

OK, if Adobe software is so overpriced and rubbish and Xtreme is cheap and good, why are people still buying Adobe software?

Write your answer in the box provided, and provide any workings.

If software quality and price aren't the major factors in the success of Xtreme and Adobe Illustrator, explain how going open source will reverse the fortunes of these products.

Write your answer in the box provided, and provide any workings.

At least someone sane here!

**Nostaw** · 02 November 2006, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Intbel

Adobe cares diddley squat about its customers.

So you are saying Xara DOES care about customers by throwing a unbeatable price of 79 dollar, with no major updates and all suggestions by its users ignored. Mmmmkay.

Just because Xara is cheap doesn't mean they care about customers, in fact, what makes you think at all Xara cares?

Neither does Adobe - there is no difference, except Adobe can afford to update their products and that's because their products COST REAL money and not 79.

**Intbel** · 02 November 2006, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by pauland

OK, if Adobe software is so overpriced and rubbish and Xtreme is cheap and good, why are people still buying Adobe software?

P'shop has been the industry standard for years.
The price is kept artificially high to keep the product in the hands of professionals and so that Joe public can not afford to buy the programme unless he is serious about photo-editing and manipulation.

This has ensured that generally, Joe public views computerised graphic illustration as some magical science restricted to a few who must be exceedingly clever.

Adobe could drop its price to make its products available to the masses but that would be pointless in terms of profit, for its help desk would need to massively increase staff and the cost of that would cancel any increased profit .. so, keep the price high thereby restricting it to the (relative) minority, most of which don't need a help desk anyway.

Adobe, Xara ... all are in business to make a profit.
However, that profit should be made with the willing support of its customers and not at the expense of potential customers.

Also, by charging exhorbitant prices, piracy is encouraged.
There are many sources for pirate Adobe products - P'shop being the most readily available.

I have only ever found one Xara product available in this way and that was an early version of X3D.

Some blame must also lie with the graphic houses and so on which are too damn conservative and have no desire to change and have no desire to seek, possibly better, alternatives.

Same goes for design colleges - how many are aware of Xara let alone use it?

When my local printer(s) accept(s) .xar files I'll know real progress is being made ...

**Nostaw** · 02 November 2006, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Intbel

The price is kept artificially high to keep the product in the hands of professionals and so that Joe public can not afford to buy the programme unless he is serious about photo-editing and

Oh dear... so they should. If you, Intbel, would have hundreds
of clients want their work done by you - you woudn't charge them more?
Ethics aside, this is business, you help others doing their business and
you help them to make money.

A real life example:
Lets say you are a full time graphic designer and Xara is one
of your main tools.
And let's assume you make USD 40.000 per year.
You paid for Xara USD 89.
--- thats 0.22% per year - less than 1 percent! ---
For a tool which makes you a living!

CS2 full version including 5 Applications (AI PSD PDF INDD GOLIVE)
and is about USD 1750,
--- that's 4.37% of your income, about 0,87% per application (4.37% / 5)---

A dentist who just bought his own equipment starts to earn
money after many years - these are tools you need to pay for and that's
the reason you claim work tools like software or whatever you need for
your job on tax.

Remember, you work with these tools every day!

Overview:
Xara - 1 application -: 0.22% per year
CS2 - 5 applications -: 4.37% per year, 0.87% per application

So I guess you have to ask yourself how serious you need and how much money you really make using Xara.

**pauland** · 02 November 2006, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Intbel

P'shop has been the industry standard for years.
The price is kept artificially high to keep the product in the hands of professionals and so that Joe public can not afford to buy the programme unless he is serious about photo-editing and manipulation.

Adobe doesn't care who buys it's product. Adobe products are priced to maximise profit.

This has ensured that generally, Joe public views computerised graphic illustration as some magical science restricted to a few who must be exceedingly clever.

Joe public isn't interested in this stuff, or is just interested in doing very basic tasks easily.

Adobe could drop its price to make its products available to the masses but that would be pointless in terms of profit, for its help desk would need to massively increase staff and the cost of that would cancel any increased profit .. so, keep the price high thereby restricting it to the (relative) minority, most of which don't need a help desk anyway.

Why would adobe want to reduce price without an obvious competitor?

Adobe, Xara ... all are in business to make a profit.
However, that profit should be made with the willing support of its customers and not at the expense of potential customers.

Customers don't willingly pay. Companies should adopt a pricing strategy that maximises profit, customer numbers aren't the goal, except as a way to increase profit.

I have only ever found one Xara product available in this way and that was an early version of X3D.

Shows how bad the publicity has been if the hackers haven't heard of it..

Some blame must also lie with the graphic houses and so on which are too damn conservative and have no desire to change and have no desire to seek, possibly better, alternatives.

Same goes for design colleges - how many are aware of Xara let alone use it?

When my local printer(s) accept(s) .xar files I'll know real progress is being made ...

Graphic houses will use whatever works. Switching software is an expense for them in terms of workflow and training.Your other comments reinforce the fact that Xtreme is poorly promoted.

I used to work for a database manufacturer. My employer had a technical superiority in many ways over it's rival, but the rival was prospering and my employer was losing ground. The joke was "Which hardware platform does the Rival software perform best on?". The answer was : "A 35mm slide projector".

Sadly, while funny, it was true. Promotion always wins out over technical quality and a lower price isn't a substitite for promotion. The rival is now the dominant market leader and my former employer is very much a small player in comparison.

As far as Adobe goes, they are doing the right thing and making money. There's no anti-customer conspiracy, just a plan to maximise profit.

Paul

**Soquili** · 02 November 2006, 02:21 AM

Why do these discussions always deteriorate into "My favorite program is better than yours"?

**pauland** · 02 November 2006, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Soquili

Why do these discussions always deteriorate into "My favorite program is better than yours"?

I don't see what you mean. I don't own Illustrator. The discussion is about the price point and marketing of Xara Ltd for Xtreme in comparison with Adobe's sapproach with illustrator. I love Xtreme which is simultaneously one of the best and one of the most annoying programs I own.

Paul