Leaving XWD Because of Immense Frustration

[suzzie1234]

Cursor, Thank You for the Video.

Cant wait till you get a mike because you are a good teacher and very competent here!

Slavelle...I tried the Column of text method. It didnt work out for me unfortunately for some reason....at getting two words in a button to highlight at the same time.

I then spent an hour trying out different variations and permutations. I could easily get one word to highlight...but not the two words I have on several of the buttons...each word would highlight separately but NOT together.

I was so hopeful that your concept would work out well. Maybe there is another workaround possibly.

[cursor]

I tried the Column of text method. It didnt work out for me unfortunately for some reason....at getting two words in a button to highlight at the same time.

Don't keep trying, Suzzie ... it won't work, I'm afraid. (See my earlier post #58, above.)

Im going to try to post a web file of my menu system...its not the old hodge podge that I could never make work...but its a new menu bar I did in just 30 minutes...just trying it out.

I'm anxious to see the file that you said you'd attach, laying out your intended menu.

[Soquili]

Curtis I'm not following you on how grouping the text to the button shape will not work.

[cursor]

Hi Bill.

It WILL work. However, Suzzie wants the simplicity of working with a single MouseOff layer, exploiting the Web Properties > Website > Website link colors. She'd prefer not involve the added compexity of MouseOver layers, nor popup layers. That cannot be achieved with the solution that you offered. It is, however, totally acceptable to me.

Multiple-lined text links will simply not work without grouping and the employment of both MouseOff AND MouseOver layers.

[Soquili]

Gotcha....

An Xtremely simplified solution is needed.

[slavelle]

Yeah, and unfortunately, xtremely simplified means tha tyou have to work within certain restrictions. One of those is that text links cannot span lines. I think is has to to with the abosolute positioning nature of Xara products.

It's not that you can't do multiple lines of text or that they can't be on the same button, they just need to be grouped (and therefore a graphic) for this to happen. Once they are a graphic, then the auto mouseover stuff goes out the window (at least for the nav bar) and things need to be put on the mouseover layer. I still contend that this is nowhere near as complicated as people are worried that it is. It CAN be, but it doesn't HAVE to be.

Video coming....

[cursor]

Hi Suzzie. I hadn't noticed that you recently attached a .web file that contains your menu layout. I've done some minor editing. Have a look and see if it might answer some questions for you regarding popup layers & rollovers. You were really quite close to a functional solution!

P.S. I'm headed out right now to shop for a microphone.

[suzzie1234]

Cursor,

Im going to exercise faith in you and invest 4-5 hours in trying out your pdf nav bar tutorial this afternoon.

Everything is going great on page 1. I have all 8 buttons...BUT...This soft group thing is SO unpredictable. When I softgroup and then type in the words I want...yes...the words get typed on both layers...but NOT the positions. If I move the text on the mouseoff layer...the words are still there on the mouseover layer...but the position does not follow. This behavior has always killed me...but your idea of using horiz and vert centering to align the text gets me over that with some extra effort. If I move text on layer 1 then I have to center it...then go to layer 2 and center it there also...otherwise I can spend hours trying to match up the mouseover registration.

Does anyone have some definitive rules and behaviors and principles regarding soft grouping (when to use, when to take off, when to leave it etc). Is my software correct in that it copies the letters but not the positions of the softgrouped layers...or do I have a bug?

Ive noticed we have all been "soft" on soft layers...and not mentioning it...or slightly avoiding it...or saying we will get to that later LOL.

Im Chugging...Now ive got to make the popups...wish me luck and sanity!

Suzzie

[slavelle]

Suzzie,

I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of soft groups. I need to spend more time understanding the nuances. I like the concept, but the execution always trips me up and I find I can't "get to" the objects I want and end up un soft-grouping anyway. When it comes to the built-in buttons, I generally try to leave them alone short of minor modifications, as I don't really Understand their anatomy, if you will.

I have found that it's just easier for me not to deal with the soft-grouping at all and when I need the text to be on a button, I just create it on one layer, ctrl-c, switch to the mouseover layer and ctrl-shioft-v to paste it in the same spot. Then I know it's exactly the same and won't show up as a surprise in 3 days when I doing website spot checks and I have no idea why it's behaving the way it is.

Cursor - I watched your video and it helped me to recall the "magnet" at the top of the screen for snapping buttons together (and other things of course). I DO have to say, though, that the audio would be helpful here. I knew what you were doing and there were a few places where the only way you could understand it is if you already knew it - like a few of the changing of layers, moving things about - the screen stays largely the same and when it changes, the changes only appear logical to the person who already knows what is about to (or just) happen(ed).

You obviously have a handle on how to do this and your video will be helpful to a number of people, I'm sure - with or without the audio.

[cursor]

With respect to button text, these are some points that I have found to be important:

• Always use the right justification mode for your text. If it is center justified on the button, then by all means use center-justified text. Certainly, there are times when left-justified text makes sense. For example, a column of buttons that run down the left-hand side of your project might look best if the text is left justified.
• Always use a known text string as the initial term when creating your buttons. If you use "button_1", then center it on your graphic button, it's baseline position will be vertically different than if you were to use "product_1" (because of the descender on the letter 'p'). If you use all caps, then you're safe. (One the text position is established, you can change to lower case, if you like.) If you use a word like "option" then you have both an ascender and a descender. Once the vertical position is changed ... never re-center it vertically. This will maintain a constant baseline for all of your text.
• Like slavelle (Steve) pointed out (as does my primitive video), creating your text string on the MouseOff button group first, then cloning the group (or pasting in place) to the rollover layer, ensures that your text is 1) exactly the same string value, font, size, style ... and position.

Soft Group thread

Note, Suzzie, that in the fixed .web file that I attached to my last post had NO soft-grouping whatsoever. I agree with Steve that it can frequently be a pain trying to reach inside a soft-group to address minor button changes. On the other hand, if the button creation process is handled in a structured way, then there is little reason to modify components inside of a soft-group.

More later ... after I get a microphone.