New Dark Color Scheme + XDP6 New Feature Mod = Slightly Better Viewing Experience (?)

I must admit that I do not like the new dark grey color scheme. When I answered the earlier Xara poll on my preference I voted NO for changing to the darker color GUI. Obviously I and a lot of other people were overruled and the new versions of Xara Web Designer, Xara Photo & Graphic Designer 6 & Xara Designer Pro 6 have incorporated the 'dark' interface. Change, just for the sake of change, and because all of the other applications are now that way isn't a justification for altering the color scheme. I hope that in a few years when everyone else has decided on changing to a fluorescent green interface (or whatever's the current 'in' color) that Xara/Magix does not decide to follow ;). Anyone remember the 'Hot Dog Stand' color scheme that was available in older versions of Microsoft Windows? Wow! That was a real eye popper! :eek:

It is a fact that the perceived color of an object is altered by any color or colors that surround it. Place a colored object on a white piece of paper and the object appears lighter than the same object placed on a dark grey or black piece of paper. For the same reason that most people don't draw or paint in direct sunlight, or moonlight, the area surrounding a drawing should be of a neutral color, neither stark white nor very dark. The change to the new color scheme in XWD, XP&G6 & XDP6 is, in my opinion, too dark.

With that said, the new Xara Designer Pro 6 has a cool new feature that allows you to change the color of the pasteboard to whatever color you'd like by Ctrl+dragging and dropping any color from the color line onto the pasteboard using the mouse. This works for standard documents as well as the website documents as shown in the following quote.

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Originally Posted by From the Xara Designer Pro 6 Help File

Pasteboard background color
When working with website documents you can also set the color of the pasteboard (the area around the page). Drag and drop a color onto the pasteboard area. And as for the page background, once you've done this you can also right click on the pasteboard and choose Change Page Background from the menu, to edit the color using the color editor.

Once you've set the page background color AND the pasteboard background color, your exported website will use the page color for the page area and the pasteboard color for the browser background.

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Now the really cool part of all of this is that you can change the pasteboard color of your current document to a lighter, or any other, color in Xara Designer Pro 6. Then by choosing File > Save Template from the Menu Toolbar, giving the Template a descriptive name, then selecting whether you want to 'Use as default template' by checking the box on the right side of the 'Save Template' window and pressing 'Save' you can alter and permanently save a template with the new pasteboard color. If you opted to check 'Use as default template' the next time you fire up or open a new document it will have whatever color pasteboard you've chosen.

I gave my pasteboard a lighter grey color (HSV #c0c0c0) which is somewhere around a 25% black fill color. The interface is still dark but the lighter, more neutral colored pasteboard seems to brighten everything up a bit. My poor eyes also don't seem to strain as much and, therefore, fatigue less quickly with my lighter pasteboard area. I know this isn't a fix for the low contrast icons and light grey text on a dark grey background for menu items but you can give it a try and see if it helps to improve your GUI any.

Whatcha think?,
Harry

P.S. - Sorry for the long post made even longer by this P.S.

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I do the same change the pasteboard, but I start to use the new interface and it´s not bad, also you can use the "white" interface if you want. So this shouldn´t be a problem.

Sounds like a good compromise Harry.

I for one really like the dark gray. So much so that my desktop color is the same dark gray. But I also like the unobtrusive nature of the dark gray. It focuses my attention on what is on the page.

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Originally Posted by HayTay

Change, just for the sake of change, and because all of the other applications are now that way isn't a justification for altering the color scheme.

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There are valid technical reasons for this kind of change. OTOH, there is no valid reason for the old UI, it just happened to be done that way when Windoze had a different default theme. Therefore, there is no valid reason not to change and certainly no reason to ever change back. It is still not perfect, the gallery backgrounds are still blindingly bright and there is too much contrast in the icons and text [rulers] but it is an excellent start.

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I hope that in a few years when everyone else has decided on changing to a fluorescent green interface (or whatever's the current 'in' color) that Xara/Magix does not decide to follow ;).

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Now you are just showing your ignorance. Do you really not trust Xara to make their products better? Do you think they do things simply on a whim or do they work really hard to make their products better and better all the time?

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It is a fact that the perceived color of an object is altered by any color or colors that surround it.

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Which is precisely why white [or black] are very poor choices for a UI for this kind of work. What you want are neutral greys, which is precisely what Xara has delivered in this update.

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Place a colored object on a white piece of paper and the object appears lighter than the same object placed on a dark grey or black piece of paper.

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No, it is actually the other way around. If you work with a light UI, you will tend to make everything too bright. Working with a black surround will tend to make everything too dark. Either way though, you are simply making a point for the new UI colour.

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The change to the new color scheme in XWD, XP&G6 & XDP6 is, in my opinion, too dark.

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Based on what, personal preference? Hardly scientific. OTOH, there is a SMPTE standard for this kind of thing that is pretty close to the new DesignerPRO UI. It was devised by a panel of experts, who had no agenda other than to strive to improve themselves and the quality of their work [and yours]. Even Maya have finally got on board.

@gwpreister. ditto

@BONES. Agreed

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Originally Posted by BONES

There are valid technical reasons for this kind of change.

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Please provide any nondisputabe proof for those "technical reasons".

The neutral grey of the original interface more closely matches the color reference used for decades in the photography industry.

ok Bones,

I hope you can understand what happens to the eyes when you get older. Less light gets into them and they sometimes are blurry, especially under stress. 2 things make it harder to do graphic work.....too much bright and too much dark.

I am going to try to use the dark background to see if I can but not to distraction because there is EYE STRAIN involved for some people. No gui will be perfect for all people and my guess is that your panel of experts likely have fairly good eyesight. I personally found it too dark for some darker print/lines....etc....no panel of experts can say that is an invalid statement nor can an argument that's valid be made against that statement....it's simply a fact of life.

Standards are all well and good but they are not a blanket that everyone can necessarily be under for various reasons....lesser functioning eyesight is one...and if your eyes are like mine, then probably you won't be sticking with the darker gui. THAT is what Bill (Soquilli) is trying to tell you. There are people out there with those issues. It doesn't make the standard good or bad, just not best for everyone, no matter who the experts are. Of course Xara will try to improve their products the best way they see but Bill brings up some valid points and they should not be just shunted aside....he has tried the gui, it doesn't work for him, that should not just be dismissed....it's a valid point....it's a valid point that the gui doesn't work for everybody. It's a valid point that with the dark gui I have trouble seeing certain things and that causes eyestrain, my eyes are no longer 20 years old, they are 60.

All that said, I fully understand what you are saying about the gui standard that has been set but standards definitely come and go and often in hindsight they are found to be very wanting. I'm sure we are progressing to something that will be better for nearly everyone in the future, but for now, I saw a lot of comments that were not exactly for the dark gui but rather for the lighter one.

Anyway, it's good to have many opinions on a subject and as people get older this can be a more lively type discussion....I've seen both ends of the spectrum so it's easy to understand.

OK BONES, I'm always willing to learn something new. Have you got a link or something to this SMPTE standard and how it was developed other than

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Originally Posted by BONES

It wasn't a "study" and it wasn't anything to do with a "corporation", it was a bunch of experts putting their heads together and coming up with a specification that makes sense. That's the thing, think about it for just a minute it it is blindingly obvious that it makes perfect sense.

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Unfortunately that doesn't make any sense and it sounds a bit like they just 'winged it' to me. I've been around long enough to know that a lot of studies and recommendations by 'experts' aren't worth the paper or pixels they're printed with. But, like I said, I'm open and more than willing to read up on the SMPTE GUI recommendations if you can point me to some documentation.

For now, I'm sorry, but I just know what my eyes tell me. And, what they're telling me is the interface, for me, is too dark. I've got a sister that used to (maybe still does) like to 'illuminate' a large room with a single low-wattage bulb that was dimmed even further by a lampshade. It was difficult to see objects several feet away very clearly, let alone who you were talking to across the room. Everything was a dingy, dark grey color beyond the meager illumination. My wife and I always seemed to have a slight headache after visiting for any extended period of time. We still joke to this day about our visits to the 'dungeon'.

What I guess I'm really trying to say is that I don't want Xara, or the SMPTE, or you, or someone else choosing the flavor-of-the-decade GUI color for me. If an effort is going to be made to change the colors of the user interface, change it so that the individual user can make a conscious choice of interface colors/schemes for themselves. It would have been much nicer if a TAB was added under Utilities > Options to allow the user to choose from several 'stock' color schemes (light, dark, or medium grey, medium blue, blotter green, chartreuse, or whatever) and/or add his/her own custom defined color scheme. 'Windoze' has had this ability for more than a decade and a half.

Looking forward to an informative read,
Harry

This is getting old rather fast. There are several threads about this subject where one should be enough, this is leading to lot's of cross postings.
I think Xara/MAGIX are fully aware that there would be some resistance and they are prepared to cop some flack as they must when a significant change is made.
It's not going to change, many current version MAGIX application UI's can show you that. Voting with your feet is probably the best feedback you can give Xara.

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Originally Posted by sledger

There are several threads about this subject where one should be enough...

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Um, Mr. OverModerator (at times): Those multiple threads are a sign of the displeasure of many of your members. If you trimmed them, Magix and Xara would be bereft of valuable feedback.

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Voting with your feet is probably the best feedback you can give Xara.

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But that doesn't ultimately benefit Xara or the users, does it? Maybe it's better to let Xara know the true feelings of its users, perchance through this forum, and multiple threads?

You're right, Steve!

I actually started this thread to point out that, while I had an issue with the change to darker colors, I had used one of the COOL NEW features of XDP6 to make the change less of a strain on my eyes. I thought that it was a great way to show off the new ability to alter the 'pasteboard background color'. Additionally, I was attempting to show that it could (possibly) be used to make a difference to someone else having similar visual difficulties with the overall darkness of the new interface.

As Gary Priester said, "Sounds like a good compromise Harry." I thought so, too! Personally, I'm happier with the new interface after my lighter grey pasteboard modification. I'm sticking with that minor color change/tweak and not opting to the Ctrl+Shift+Alt+S switch that reverts everything back to the previous interface colors.

So far I haven't voted with my feet, or my wallet, one way or the other. They're both still communicating with my brain and my eyes and remain undecided whether to go ahead with the upgrade to XDP6. My choice to upgrade to XXP3.2, XXP4, and XXP5 required much less thought.

Off to play with some of the other new features,
Harry

To be honest (why not huh?), I think all these threads truly show the passion that people deem to be THEIR program....and that's easy to see how that happens. I'm one of those.

Solutions have already been provided for those that wish to change from the expert's standard and that's fair too.

I'm also sure one day a tweak will appear that will allow a more versatile change for the gui....perhaps, perhaps not....but my feeling is most Xara users will not 'walk anywhere else' just because this is truly a great program at a bargain price....and worst case senario, a person can always use an older version that they own if they aren't happy with the new one.

Personally, I expect to upgrade because there appears to be a great deal of function added and more will be discovered as time goes on, of that I'm sure....cause......YOU GUYS ARE THE GREATEST!!!!!

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Originally Posted by David O'Neil

Um, Mr. OverModerator (at times):

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Please avoid going personal and never insult other members (including moderators). Any criticism or discussion of the moderators actions is strictly prohibited by the forum rules.
Thank you.

I don't really see the problem. Some don't like the colour of the UI, some (me included) do like it. Its my understanding that its very easy to revert to the old colour scheme. Its not something I've tried but I've seen endless mentions of it.
Now the flyout menus, thats another matter, they’ve got to go; how do they help anyone? No wait, they have gone, I removed them and replaced their contents with the individual items as they were in the olden days. My preference, which is why its customisable.
The option for a smaller toolbar to return is something that would get my vote just to maximise screen space, though what’s wrong with lime green I don't know, but I bet we green lovers will never get that choice?

good tip Harry, I will try it - to be honest the pasteboard color was one thing that really upset me with the new UI

however my eyes will always be the final judge [in the sense of what they will accept] - I have the luxury [as a cartoonist as much as anything] not to have to worry too much about the minutiae of color fidelity when using xtreme/designer :D

if I do animation, and I do need to be more careful, I use Toon Boom - my version has an 'adobe CS5' type UI, which is perfectly acceptable - despite what has been said elsewhere I think adobe know what they are doing in this regard as well as others

My participation in the threads is in the hope that someone in authority takes notice.

The mention that support for changing to the original UI may not be supported in future releases. This is what cut the deepest with me.

Essentially this seems to indicate that who ever is making the decisions has decided that people that do not like the dark UI will no longer be supported by Xara software. Not very customer friendly in my opinion.

Whether someone prefers the dark or light UI isn't the important thing here. The important thing is will some customers be dropped from the target demographic?

I can understand that resources are not unlimited and manhours must be utilized wisely.

If only one UI can be supported, should not the one that requires 3rd party software be dropped rather than the native code?

Regarding the choice of UI. Xara never offered the choice of the UI before. Never. Now as you have it, you complain about it missing. Why hadn't you complained before in the first place?

John who's post are you replying to?

If to mine, there wasn't anything to complain about. The original UI is the one I prefer. My complaint is that it may disappear in the future for one that is not pleasant to use. :)

well I have seen talks about the GUI (it isn`t so much the UserInterface, but the Graphic part of it) before. Some calling it old fashioned than. ;)
But if you didn`t hear complaints before doesn`t that say something?
And now that it IS changed, some would like the option for the old or atleast
setting the colorscheme themselves, and I just found out in this thread that
you can atleast set the workingspacepart yourself. Which is good.

Ummm, I'll go ahead and state the obvious, it's because I, for one, actually liked the original interface. Why would I complain about something I liked?

My question to you, John and the rest of the Xara/Magix developers, is why all of a sudden did you feel the need to change the color scheme? If it's such a super advantage that we're being led to believe, then why wasn't it changed in XX/XXP version 3, 4 or 5. Why dark grey, and why now?

This reminds me of the New Coke debate. In the end, Coca-Cola finally admitted defeat and brought and reintroduced Coke Classic :D.

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Originally Posted by Soquili

John who's post are you replying to?

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Everyone who apply.

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If to mine, there wasn't anything to complain about. The original UI is the one I prefer. My complaint is that it may disappear in the future for one that is not pleasant to use.

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But you understand that for some people the old UI was bad right? And you didn't care about them back then as it suited you personally. Now you have a choice so your complains are quite pointless. And if in future you'll get no choice and the UI you don't like, the amount of your complaints shouldn't get higher than those of people who were not happy with the old UI in the past. That means, about 1 or 2 posts. In the dear xara forum.
Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by covoxer

Everyone who apply.
. Now you have a choice so your complains are quite pointless.

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Well, it has been said that that option isn`t good, and could cause trouble
since the old one will be phased out.

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And if in future you'll get no choice and the UI you don't like, the amount of your complaints shouldn't get higher than those of people who were not happy with the old UI in the past. That means, about 1 or 2 posts. In the dear xara forum.
Am I wrong?

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Well, Coca Cola was smart enough to bring Coca Cola classic back. ;)

People complain when things effect them. That is how everyone responds.

The ability to switch between the dark and light UIs is quite acceptable to me.

It was stated that the ability to switch to the original UI may be dropped in future releases.

This in essence is saying that Xara would no longer want to support people that prefer the original UI. This is why I'm complaining now and not before.

The purpose of my complaining now is in hopes that someone in authority to make decisions takes notice.

I fully understand that maintaining two UIs takes a lot of resources. But I also feel that if a UI is to be dropped it should be the one that requires 3rd party software and any licensing fees that costs.

I also understand that money has already been spent, but feel that should not be considered as a reason to continue to spend more time and money on a 3rd party solution.

Very well. Now, please post all your suggestions in the Dear Xara forum which is constantly monitored by Xara unlike all these threads.
All the rant anywhere else is not likely to influence future decisions.
Thank you.

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