Save confirm dialogue change

**Xhris** · 14 November 2006, 12:54 PM

I'd like to request that the confirm save dialogue be changed to the industry standard of "yes" or "no" instead of the current "save" or "don't save". It's bugging me.

**AntonyF** · 14 November 2006, 01:23 PM

Industry standard doesn't necessarily mean good. There are many things that are industry standard which there's no way we'd want in Xtreme (non-modal dialogs anyone?).

I believe that from early on it was decided to have no yes/no options (Charles would be able to clarify). And to me it makes sense. Here the buttons say what they do, even if you don't read what it says above. I'm guessing that was the decision-making behind it.

Buttons that say what they do to me is a good break of "industry standard".

(The worst case of what you want I saw in a game once. It asked: "Do you wish to end now, or play some more?" And the answers were yes and no.)

**Xhris** · 14 November 2006, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by AntonyF

Industry standard doesn't necessarily mean good. There are many things that are industry standard which there's no way we'd want in Xtreme (non-modal dialogs anyone?).

I believe that from early on it was decided to have no yes/no options (Charles would be able to clarify). And to me it makes sense. Here the buttons say what they do, even if you don't read what it says above. I'm guessing that was the decision-making behind it.

Buttons that say what they do to me is a good break of "industry standard".

Originally Posted by AntonyF

(The worst case of what you want I saw in a game once. It asked: "Do you wish to end now, or play some more?" And the answers were yes and no.)

Yes, that’s an example of general idiocy though, and no I don't want this.

I'll elaborate on what I was getting at – it’s sometimes beneficial to review past decisions. It's common when closing a document you’ve made changes to, to be asked if you want to save. Xara is the only software I’ve used that doesn’t offer a “yes” or “no” option. This in itself isn’t a big deal, but I often find myself pressing “y” for “yes” and it doing nothing until I realise to press “s”. I'm not proposing to mindlessly adopt industry standard for the sake of not being different, but to review this dialogue in particular. This is one case where I feel “yes” or “no” is more intuitive, as it is expected based on everything else, and is one of the few obvious dialogues.

If the purpose of avoiding “yes” and “no” is to avoid encouraging quick-clickers to make errors by forcing them to read, then that’s great. But here it’s just unnecessary. Maybe allowing “y” and “n” to have the same effect as “s” and “d” could be considered, then everyone would be happy.

**tonylondon** · 14 November 2006, 03:30 PM

I'm with Antony on this one!
Tony

**DukeofThomas** · 14 November 2006, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Xhris

I'd like to request that the confirm save dialogue be changed to the industry standard of "yes" or "no" instead of the current "save" or "don't save". It's bugging me.

Yes, I agree. It bugs me too! Why make people have to think every time they see the 'Save As' dialogue? Why not put:

"Save" "Don't Save" "Not too sure" "Make a cup of tea first", etc.etc.

A simple

YES NO CANCEL

is all that's needed.

We're back in Windows 3.1 land again...

**DukeofThomas** · 14 November 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by AntonyF

Industry standard doesn't necessarily mean good. There are many things that are industry standard which there's no way we'd want in Xtreme (non-modal dialogs anyone?).

None of that bears any relevance to the original post.
Industry standard means everybody EXPECTS it to happen that way, and is therefore use to it. What is wrong with the word 'No' instead of 'Don't save'?
The word 'No' is far more obvious and simple than the two words 'Don't save', which make you stop in your tracks, because you see the word 'save' in 'Don't save'!!!

I believe that from early on it was decided to have no yes/no options (Charles would be able to clarify). And to me it makes sense. Here the buttons say what they do, even if you don't read what it says above. I'm guessing that was the decision-making behind it.

Yet another example of a bad decision. "even if you don't read what it says above". How do we manage in every other program?
If I want to select a function, such as 'stretch image' (in a hypothetical program', should the dialog box come up with:

"Yes" "No" "Cancel"

or

"Stretch image" "Don't stretch image" "Cancel the stretching of the image"

Some of you people are so stuck on this program that you can't even see the most basic flaws of interface design.

Buttons that say what they do to me is a good break of "industry standard".

The word "No" does what it says it does.
And I've been waiting to say this for a long time, but
"What part of "No" don't you understand?"

(The worst case of what you want I saw in a game once. It asked: "Do you wish to end now, or play some more?" And the answers were yes and no.)

No, that's not what he wants at all. It's what YOU want! You can't even see it!

**DukeofThomas** · 14 November 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by tonylondon

I'm with Antony on this one!
Tony

Now there's a surprise...

**DukeofThomas** · 14 November 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Xhris

I'd like to request that the confirm save dialogue be changed to the industry standard of "yes" or "no" instead of the current "save" or "don't save". It's bugging me.

And the 'Help' button certainly shouldn't be there either. Why not put in ten other buttons too, to make it even more complicated?

**The Alien** · 14 November 2006, 04:06 PM

I'm with Xhris. It's my personal taste, but I've always found it weird to see the Save/Don't save buttons in that dialog instead of Yes/No. Industry standard is not always the way to go, but it often is

Also it's not like the dialog is asking you 2 questions at the same time so the yes/no buttons would cause confusion.
It's not a big problem for me, just unexpected (everytime) to see save/don't save instead of yes/no; it would be more streamlined to use yes/no.
Changing this though, would mean the die-hard Xara users will start complaining about why you changed it, so that's no solution imo :\

**DukeofThomas** · 14 November 2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Xhris

If the purpose of avoiding “yes” and “no” is to avoid encouraging quick-clickers to make errors by forcing them to read, then that’s great. But here it’s just unnecessary. Maybe allowing “y” and “n” to have the same effect as “s” and “d” could be considered, then everyone would be happy.

I think Xara are just being stupid about a lot of things, with regard to interface design.
You don't make a program better by adopting failed interface designs and then claiming they are being 'different' and are therefore somehow 'better'.

The use of the two words "Don't" and "Save' means the user is seeing the word "Save" on two buttons. Those of us who can read really quickly (like myself) automatically read every single button the minute the dialogue window opens, they can't help it. We therefore have to UNlearn what we're used to, stop looking for what we look for on EVERY other program, (the word "No") and reprogram our minds specifically for this one program, to convert "Don't Save" to mean "No".
To put it even more simply: the word "No" is much quicker to understand and register in your brain than the words "Don't save".

It's just stupid. It's unnecessary. Why repeat the concept that is already written immediately above the buttons, and I quote:
"Do you want to save your changes to 'Test.xar'?"

When somebody asks you if you want a cup of tea, do you reply:
"I want a cup of tea", or "I do not want a cup of tea"?

You say either "Yes please" or "No thankyou". Obviously the words 'please' and 'thankyou' are superfluous to computer use...

Like I said, this program seems to have attracted a fair few people who worship it like some kind of religion... What next - burning at the stake for pointing out the archaic customs of the great god Xara?