What's happened to the Support Tickets?

[peachesQT]

Hi again,
I tried the link but couldn't find the book, so had a search around the site and found other interesting items.
Then tried to register to receive a free product and an error page came up, to do with their server and retireving data.
So, no luck downloading the book.
Will try again later.

Thanks.

[ss-kalm]

If you download the book, and view it on the monitor, it defeats the object, as you are still looking at the wrong colour. You must get a commercially printed version to view accurate colours.

Just to make this point clear - This is not Xara's problem, it will occur on all monitor colour/printer colour items.

[amoore]

Hi peachesQT

As you can see, this particular issue of color viewing and output is really hard to get a handle on. Without having been party to your exchanges with Xara tech support, I would guess that they did, in fact, try to answer the technical questions concerning the software. Unfortunately, that's not where the answer to your problem lies.

The truth is that there is no 100% reliable way to get exactly the color you intend on output, and particularly not when you're trying to output to two different targets from the same source. Some of the commercial print experts around here can get reasonably close, but they'll tell you that it takes a good deal of effort and experience. Even Pantone isn't 100% reliable because there are multiple Pantone pallettes and multiple companies that make Pantone inks. The same Pantone color from the same ink is going to look one way on coated paper and another way on uncoated paper. It's way better than the alternatives, but it helps if you understand some of the limitations.

Way back, when I was still only creating material for black & white output, I read post after post in various forums about not being able to get the exact color you saw on your monitor when you printed the image. I thought that meant, for example, that teal would be a little bluer or a little greener depending on the printer. No, what it meant was that the Pantone teal that printed commercially as a lovely greenish blue would display as kelly green on my monitor and print as blue gray on my inkjet.

I can't talk about CMYK because I've never had to deal with it in full 4-color seps. (The jobs I produce in house or send out are either Pantone spot color or printed digitally. Our ad agency handles everything else.) But I do know that printed CMYK colors are generally duller and darker than what you will see on your monitor. Xtreme's "simulated print colors" view is — at best — a very, very rough approximation. I think it's useful more as reminder that "what you see is Not what you're going to get".

The best thing you can do is to read up some on Pantone and CMYK, then spend some time experimenting with the colors that are most important to you (such as your company's branding colors). Work out what you have to see on screen for the colors to print the way you want them to on your inkjet. Then incorporate what you come up with into your workflow.

As for web output vs inkjet output, you could try setting up your most frequently used colors as linked colors. That way, you could create your artwork for the web using the linked colors, then adjust the base color for the linked color series for print output on your inkjet. It would take some effort to set up the scheme, but then, when you need to print, you would only have to adjust a few base colors according to formulas you've already worked out.

There are pointers to info on editing linked colors and a link to one of Gary's tutorials in this thread:
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...nked+colors%22

Allison

[peachesQT]

Hi Allison,
Thank you for a very indepth and informative reply.

Things are getting clearer and I like your idea of setting up a palette of Linked and base colours for the CMYK.

So what I'm still trying to get my head around is more on the Xtreme side.
When I design (using CMYK and viewing in Simulated Printer colour in the program - to give an approximation of Printed colours), do I then click back to On-screen colours to save the file.
Because if the client wants to print the design on their inkjet, when using CMYK, the design is too dark, so I thought and found that when printing in On-screen colour, it prints close to the viewable Simulated Printed colour.
Therefore, if I design using CMYK or my own designed palette colours using Pantone, do I save the file in that format (with simulated printer colour turned on), if the client also wants to do some printing in-house and not just for sending to external print company.

Thanks....

[amoore]

When I design (using CMYK and viewing in Simulated Printer colour in the program - to give an approximation of Printed colours), do I then click back to On-screen colours to save the file.

No. On-screen colors and Simulate Print colors are strictly about what you see on the screen. They have nothing whatsoever to do with what prints.

Because if the client wants to print the design on their inkjet, when using CMYK, the design is too dark, so I thought and found that when printing in On-screen colour, it prints close to the viewable Simulated Printed colour.
Therefore, if I design using CMYK or my own designed palette colours using Pantone, do I save the file in that format (with simulated printer colour turned on), if the client also wants to do some printing in-house and not just for sending to external print company.

If you're mostly designing for web and inkjet, don't use CMYK at all. That's really intended for commercial print. And you don't need Pantone either, for the same reason. In fact, you may not want Pantone for those purposes. Use RGB or HSV instead.

Technically, RGB applies to the color you see on the monitor. For us ignorant or partially ignorant folks, it's also possible to spec RGB for printing digitally as opposed to CMYK. (I have no idea whether "digital print" officially includes inkjets and color lasers, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'm using it that way.) More than likely, your inkjet prints an approximation of the RGB color space rather than CMYK.

I've been advised in various forums that if the bulk of your work is created in RGB color for use online or on inkjet, that you're better off supplying the artwork for commercial print as RGB and letting the commercial printer convert it to CMYK, instead of doing it yourself. (Of course, your mileage may vary depending on the quality and expertise of the particular commercial printer.) That would probably be the way to go for your clients. Should they need output from you that's specifically intended for CMYK, then you should create a separate version of the file for that purpose and reassign the colors accordingly.

In most jobs I print on our color laser, I can see a definite difference between printing as RGB and printing as CMYK. (I can specify the color space for printing in my desktop publishing software. In Xtreme, you choose the color model in the Color Editor or the Options dialog before you start creating the image.)

My company's logo color is PMS 321, which is a teal. For years, I used the Pantone palettes for in-house work because they are recognizable named colors, and that way I could be consistent across years, projects and applications. I'm still using PMS 321 in many projects for the same reason, but I also have a color laser printer that will recognize it and print something close to it. I've also worked out the most reliable RGB equivalents, including some small variations, that I use depending on the project, the app and the output target.

The most important thing to remember is that the same image may not look the same on two monitors — even two "identical" monitors. It may not print exactly the same way on two "identical" printers. How much more variation is there likely to be between two monitors of different brands or two printers of different formats? With color, you're always going for ballpark. If you hit a home run, all the better, but you're not going to hit a home run every the time.

[peachesQT]

Thank you Amoore for a very full explanation.

So, if I design in either RGB or HSV and save the file when using on-screen colours, then the design will be almost the same when viewing on the web.
For in-house printing, there will be some colour difference if viewing and saving file in on-screen colours but for External Print Houses, Export as PDF so that they can use Digital printing, or assign CMYK colours.

I know a lot of External Printing companies do use Digital Printing now, so that is a plus.
But trying to get a client to understand why their design isn't the same as it looks on screen when printed, is a nightmare, espeically as it's driving me crazy as well.

So ultimately, no design if it's for a printed version will retain the same colour due to different printers, ink makes and paper, unless it is a specific CMYK or Pantone colour but that would mean the client would have to know the specific colours from either option, that they want for the design.

Phew!....
I need a drink...

Thank you, I think I have it now.....!!!

[raynerj1]

Even exports for the web can vary between monitors, the same monitor will show different shades depending on the lighting in the room. The shade will change if you even change the angle that you are viewing the monitor from. What is behind the monitor will also effect the shade.

Gary Priester is a long time expert on color. If you can get a hold of a copy of "Looking good in Color" I would suggest reading it cover to cover. You might be able to find a copy at ebay or borders.

[Rhanna]

I would like to say thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I know very little about the subject but I learn so much from the communication.
Thanks guys.

Rupert

[peachesQT]

Thank you You John,

I will certainly look out for that Book;

and can I say, I love your photos of the Badlands and the Frosted Trees.

[jeb]

Ref you original post -

It is very close to the first post I put up here - poor customer service from Xara.

Since then I think I have found the reason -

Xara is not a large company - they have limited funds to handle the volume of customers they have. It appears they have also gone the road that many, many companies are now doing (Google, etc) of using forums and let their customers handle their customer service.

Thankfully, it works very well here - not so good with Google, however - there are some really great people here that are kind enough and knowledgeable enough to answer most any question someone can come up with. IMHO the advice and suggestions you recieve here is far, far better than what any customer service rep could give you - and you don't spend hours on the phone getting it. - jb