XAML export?

[amoore]

... Xara being the best vector graphics package out there (I would say that wouldn't I)...

But then, you would be right.

[Wizzard]

Thanks Charles "us" MS technically aware “techies/designers” we really appreciate the work you are doing and I don’t want to have to buy Expression Designer!

[juergen]

Most funny thread I read in a while.

While Silverlight might be something interesting in the future, it currently is far from being something you can sell to any customer.
In a time where companies are striving to have their websites being compliant to standards like WAI, Section 508 or BITV in Germany, they often dont even use flash but try to build clean frontends consisting of a user interface built on standards.

Besides some of the statements being either high hopes or just unsolicited guesswork the way you try to sell technology to the wrong audience is amusing.

I just removed the samples from the thread I found amusing as they would be wrong on this forum too, so I only add my 2C on this matter.

Formats like XAML, XPS and OOXML are just tries to get some standards set whatever it costs.

On this forum, I will only look at XAML regarding its impact on graphics used for my daily work and entertainment. In my opinion it will be pretty low despite the coverage from Microsoft.

What I notice around me for quite a while now is that people are getting more and more computer educated and stop believing that there is only 1 Operating System, 1 Word Processor and 1 graphics program, people look more carefully at file formats too. They want to be sure they can trade their documents, images, artwork with friends, customers or whoever.

Using a new format might be cool, but you might be alone with it. And the day you move to another OS, you might even loose your own work. Thats what companies noticed and even governments who for example start to rely on document formats that are open and not in the hands of a single company.

If XAML is good or not, it needs to prove first that it is useful, that it is worth to bet your money on and that it is supported on more than one platform and by more than one or two pieces of software.

Juergen

PS. I hope my post is still intact after deleting most of my comments on the many ads in this thread )

[ss-kalm]

What I notice around me for quite a while now is that people are getting more and more computer educated and stop believing that there is only 1 Operating System, 1 Word Processor and 1 graphics program, people look more carefully at file formats too. They want to be sure they can trade their documents, images, artwork with friends, customers or whoever.

If people are to really believe that there is more than one operating system then it is important to be able to share documents between different systems.

The way Xara works now and its native XAR file format won't change, but it "may" have the ability to export as XAML (and SVG etc.). That way anyone can view the graphics produced regardless of system.

To most end users it doesn't matter as they are only interested in the content - Not how it's produced, but to the people who produce and share their ideas with others its important to have the cross platform compatability. XAML may not be relevant now, but may be in the future.

Not too long in the distant past someone decided that a portable document format was required. They too may have been ridiculed when they suggested PDF, but producing PDF's so that anyone with a reader can look at content produced on nearly any software (especially with the print to PDF option) means that many end users can see a product regardless of the software used to produce it originally.

[a4hire]

Well this thread was started almost a year ago , and I still have not heard nor seen any graphics in this format . Must not have caught on.

[Rocko]

Hi,

I am surprise about the impact of this tread, I got some conclusions:

About Xara: From a long time ago they are reactive instead of proactive, there would be expected new technologies, but not in short time. There are a lot of pending issues before the Windows Presentation Foundation adoption, as fully functional Linux and Mac versions, multipage improvement (master page, advanced text control), stroke offset control, a suggestions forum, etc. By other hand, they can not use .NET because it would make the products heavy and slow.

About Microsoft: The last big standard they release in web technology was the XMLHttpRequest object, but it got momentum until AJAX or may be Google promote it. Other technologies, not just for Web but graphics, like WMF did not succeed unless they were indispensable for the Office Suite. In fact, neither Vista has worked as expected, recently XP support was extended, returning to OEMs catalogs.

About Designers: Graphic designers are mostly Apple and Adobe followers, I hardly imagine a massive conversion from that, in fact, some had to be forced to understand CSS, but still arguing Flash projects are easier to sell, they neither had adopt CMS. By the way, only a few know about Xara.

About SW developers: Programmers usually do not understand UI interaction, you can hardly imagine a good or nice interface (The kind of XAML would allow) made by them, some times neither functional. I remember the time when it was possible to use true colour bitmaps in programs, finally it could be possible to make an accessible an pretty interface, now, after a lot of years: Who uses it? How many custom or commercial developments have it?

About Web developers: The trend is standards, not just because the desktop operative systems but the mobile business where the big money is coming.

Greetings

[MEB]

Well this thread was started almost a year ago , and I still have not heard nor seen any graphics in this format . Must not have caught on.

Those things always take some time to become widely used. Right now there isn´t much practical examples but they are there and there´s some development going on, not only by Microsoft but by third parties too.

Microsoft launched recently their Expression Studio, a suite of applications to compete with Flash/Flex from Adobe. Expression Design is their graphic application (bitmap+vector) and is able to output in XAML format that can then be used within Expression Blend (a competitor to Adobe Flash/Flex) where it can be animated and programed, to finally output an executable or a component (DLL).
Expression Blend allows you to build rich Internet applications (RIAS) throught the Silverlight plug-in as well as desktop applications throught the use of Visual Basic (included in the suite) or C# and supported on WPF and .Net 3.0 technologies.

There´s already some companies developing/selling components that can be used inside Blend to accompliah certain effects or functions (similar to extensions in Flash) so you don´t have to programme yourself complicated effects but still can use them in your projects changing just some properties.

And there´s software being launched by third parties that can use components created with Expression Blend and Design to offer a new kind of funcionality to their own software. For example Electric Rain Standout Designer:
It´s a presentation software much more powerfull than Powerpoint that relies on the XAML objects created in Expression Design and animated/programed in Blend to offer some advanced presentation templates that can be customized by the final user trought another piece of software, the Santdout Presenter.

It´s a question of time until we can find more and more companies taking advantage of these formats and a new "type of industry flourishing" : The RIA´s and a new generation of desktop applications/interfaces based on new funcionality provided by WPF/silverlight and FLEX/Adobe AIR.

[Rocko]

Electric Rain (Standout Designer vendor) Web site is made in Adobe Flash...

[MEB]

Electric Rain (Standout Designer vendor) Web site is made in Adobe Flash...

Certainly... Silverlight was launched very recently and Standout is still in beta development but you can find some Silverlight content around the web, specially video content. It´s where it shines. Besides that, current version of Silverlight only supports a subset of WPF. We are still in the begining....

I´m not saying this will succed. I´m just posting what i know about it.
It´s obvious that Flash/Flex/Adobe AIR is the strongest opponent to Microsoft plans.

[arj]

I don't know why everyone is so negative about XAML in this thread. I am just starting to do some serious development with WPF (XBAP web based & WPF applications) now that MS have released Visual Studio 2008.

I urgently need to create graphical elements for use in these applications and I would really like the ability to export from Xara in XAML.

Andrew