Xara Xtreme Pro announced

[ankhor]

Minstrel,
I'll never understand why people seem to regard software as some kind of cumulative investment. If someone buys software it should be because of what it can do. We all decide if we need an upgrade on the basis of what it can do, not as some kind of investment into the bank of software. If you stop buying upgrades, your software doesn't stop working,

Nope, but if your OS changes it will, and in time you will have a new OS.
But that is not in this case for Xreme and Xreme pro will be kept
seperate and will be developed further.

And I would have liked a modular approach, where I could purchase
SOME of the upgrades from pro. Although $120 might be too high
for me, a lower price with some of the features of pro might be affordable
and you just get the upgrades you want and/or need. Certainly as an amateur, I just have a Jpeg or a Gif output, I don`t need to print or
printshop compatablility industry standards.

nor do the features you considered worthwile purchasing evaporate. If Xtreme Pro isn't worth $120 to you, then don't buy it.

Indeed, and feel bad because some of the features and improvements
you would have liked.

Think of it another way if you like: if you are a hobbyist, how much pleasure have you had from using Xara software since you've bought it? Does that have no value to you?

That has nothing to do with it, and it ccertainly has value to me, but
I can't see what this argument has anythiing to do with it?
But, that can be just me, being stupid or something

If you are a professional: How much money have you earned by using Xara software since you've bought it?

If you are a professional, you could write it of as an investment from
your taxes, atleast here you can.

You could have spent all that money on cigarrettes, with nothing to show for it save a bad cough, bad breath and smelly clothes..

Or I could stop donating to good causes, which I did after smoking,
well I already did, also when I smoked, but now a bit more.

Xara: for the moment $120 is expensive for me too, but when I pick up my next freelance job, I'll almost certainly buy it. It is a smart move to actually move more upmarket with this product and anyone who really needs the feature set will understand that $120 is still great value.

Paul

Yep to anyone who truelly needs the upgrades it has to be worth it
and for a proffesional it should be a must have, so the choice would be different.

Plenty of times I had to buy tools for my trade which I actually
couldn`t afford at the moment but had to have, and eventually
it payed for itself, but I won`t take a loan to buy something for my hobby.

But I might win the lottery someday, and I will certainly buy it then.

[stlewis]

On pricing...

I guess this debate confirms that view that if you price low, it is hard to increase your price later. Every business coach will tell you that!

I would summarise this as:

1. average 'home user' - don't buy
2. serious or more wealthy 'home user' - buy
3. professional (of almost any level) - buy
4. anyone who wants to help Xara with cashflow because you respect their products/strategy/fight against Adobe et al - buy

For any pro, just one of the major new features will save the cost over a month or two. Unless you are on a silly daily rate!

(I will buy as I fall into categories 2, 3 and 4.)

[Availor]

anyone who wants to help Xara with cashflow because you respect their products/strategy/fight against Adobe et al - buy

Now that's totally irrelevant, I don't think you can make a business out of charity purposes

If it was open source with a donate button then yes. Surprisingly, more people are willing to donate more than if the software was paid a price for, so it seems.

[MarkMyWords]

As a professional myself I think there are no 'must have' software packages.

I'm serious, there are plenty of free or very reasonably priced programs and services available that will do the job, perhaps not as efficiently or intuitively as some more expensive commercial products, but they are there.

Buying specific software for 'professional' use is really a matter of convenience.

Photoshop isn't the industry standard because it is the best, it has had the best marketing and early on included features that allowed users to exchange ideas and techniques.

This built a massive resource for all potential users - just try Googling Photoshop tutorials, Actions, brushes, styles, etc.

What tends to happen is that when users invest time and money into a piece of software they search out others who do the same and become part of a 'community', the price of which is often having the latest version of that software. I see it all over the net, there are little tribes of software users all over the place each fiercely loyal and commited to their choice.

I'm on a constant search for the best software for my particular needs, but I know I'm not going to find one perfect program, at least until some company goes with the idea of a 'modular' program (as mentioned by another poster).

So that each user buys and 'plugs in' the various componants they need and want (before any puts me straight - I don't want an explaination of why that 'can't be done').

Until then, I don't do brand loyalty, if they want my hard earned cash then they will have to earn it too.

Keep an open mind, it isn't the software that is the most important ingredient in your work (amateur or professional) it is your attitude.

[ankhor]

As a professional myself I think there are no 'must have' software packages.

Well, that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

I'm serious, there are plenty of free or very reasonably priced programs and services available that will do the job, perhaps not as efficiently or intuitively as some more expensive commercial products, but they are there.

Yep and if you run a business you want those things, I guess,
because we hear nothing else all day from the "managers".
efficiency is the hype word nowadays, and time is money,
so if you can do the job faster, it pays.
You have to set the cost against the gain ofcourse.

Buying specific software for 'professional' use is really a matter of convenience.

Or timesaving.

Photoshop isn't the industry standard because it is the best, it has had the best marketing and early on included features that allowed users to exchange ideas and techniques.

This built a massive resource for all potential users - just try Googling Photoshop tutorials, Actions, brushes, styles, etc.

What tends to happen is that when users invest time and money into a piece of software they search out others who do the same and become part of a 'community', the price of which is often having the latest version of that software. I see it all over the net, there are little tribes of software users all over the place each fiercely loyal and commited to their choice.

Indeed, so it was in the beginning too, between computer formats.
But communities show you the possibbilities of the program and if
you see a feature you could use or like the result you would want that too.
By yourself you probably wouldn`t have known or discovered that feature.

I'm on a constant search for the best software for my particular needs, but I know I'm not going to find one perfect program, at least until some company goes with the idea of a 'modular' program (as mentioned by another poster).

So that each user buys and 'plugs in' the various componants they need and want (before any puts me straight - I don't want an explaination of why that 'can't be done').

Until then, I don't do brand loyalty, if they want my hard earned cash then they will have to earn it too.

Keep an open mind, it isn't the software that is the most important ingredient in your work (amateur or professional) it is your attitude.

Well, maybe for computing, but tools are very important in my trade.
And they make cerain things possible and offordable.

[GeoBen]

MMM makes some excellent points. I have recently been searching about for products that will extend my own capabilities beyond Xara's admittededly fine features. And... i have found some.

As Availor, I have wondered over and over why Xara did not coordinate the inclusion of Xeus in Xtreme. It is better (in my opinion, far better) than XPE.

How did Xara let Expression get away from them and into the hands of the MS gargoyle. Expression's stroke/brush handling in Xara would improve it as a drawing product far beyond SWF export. (GREAT! more people making more annoying flash banners.) With MS prepared to take the lead (will each new MS UI include a 'non-pro' version of Expression?) and Inscape pressing from behind, MS is in a position now to do to Vector drawing what Word did to word processing. Hold onto your original Xara X installation... it may be soon worth a lotta money.... to antiquarians.

I am with Availor. The feature additions are good ones, but the price is more than twice the price of the original product and there are no new DRAWING features. I can get my images into PDF now. With all the format exchange features they leave out SVG?

Including features that are essentially outside the core purpose of the program will make them more competitive in the market. Increasing their pricing tables will make them more competive in the market as (if successful) it will allow for financing future improvements, presumably at a faster rate. But this release at this price is a mistake.

i will d/l it and play with it. I likely won't buy it. If Xara lasts long enough, I may buy the 3rd or 4th generation.

geo.

[MarkMyWords]

My post wasn't a personal attack on anyone here or their opinions, I'm just giving my point of view.

"Time is money" is a motto of mine. One of my main reservations about Xara is that it often takes much more time to do things with it than other products, hence my banging on about actions/macros so often.

In my opinion it will not make significant inroads into the professional market until it includes some kind of scripting/macro feature.

Having said that, obviously many people use it to earn a living, so there are alternative ways of working that do not always need the fastest or latest gadget (I still use Photoshop 7, never seen a reason to upgrade) and I know several illustrators who refuse to even touch a computer, but do very well. These things are often a matter of personal preference.

I'm all for online communities, no problem with them at all, my criticism was of the attitudes of some users who tend to get a sort of 'tunnel vision' about their choice of software.

No software company can lay claim to my loyalty, because I'm a realist, they are not in it for me, they are commercial enterprises.

Nothing wrong with that, we all need to earn a living.

I suppose I just feel depressed when I see so many people in various forums (no one in particular) who seem to think that a particular piece of software will 'make all the difference', software won't make a bad designer or illustrator good, it's just another tool.

[GeoBen]

Mark,

I certainly didn't mean to suggest anything about your intents.

Nor were my intentions to offend anyone. I work semi-professionally and hope to ellide the "semi" someday. The improvements will help work flow, yes. But it is a drawing program. Other drawing programs are pulling away, fast. I was hoping for improvements in the essential tools. I don't think Xtreme was much an improvement in imaging. Xtreme Pro even less so.

I have a quite good Multi-page layout program. I expect to continue using it for that purpose. It does not handle image creation or editing and that is fine with me. They concentrate on page layout. XXP is not going to replace Quark or scribus in that arena.

geo.

[MarkMyWords]

LOL!

No problem Ben, I don't take offence at anything said on internet forums and my remarks were not aimed at anyone in particular.

[GeoBen]

'nuff said.

btw - you might consider the open source GNU Licensed AutoHotKey (www.autohotkey.com/) as a scripting alternative. check out the docs... it has a lotta useful features.

geo.