Will Xara Ever Create a DTP Program (like PagePlus)?

[mwenz]

Well the definition of 'DTP' in this topic was 'like PagePlus'. And by that definition we should be close (better in some ways).

Fair enough. I was actually asking about the types of work versus an application.

So I doubt PagePlus is any more capable of handling 600 pages than we are.

I have done 400+ page books in PP, both for print and eBook output. works fine, but that's about the largest. Not graphic-intensive.

Can it do scripting? Scripting is a 'nice to have' for most people I expect (being a rather technical process).

Not currently.

I doubt that would be high up most people's list. And that's the challenge for us, that most people's wish lists are different.

Serif "suffers" in some respect with the same affliction that other smaller software companies do--client-base driving features to some degree, limited resources and lack of vision for what their products could be (much less how to get there). If Serif's client-base had a greater degree of professionals that used PP for production, scripting would already be in-place. It's on version 18 (X8). Still no running headers/footers, though a recent statement indicates this and some other professional features will make their appearance in X9.

AI and EPS files should come through OK. Modern AI files are really just PDF and our PDF import is very good. Our import / export filters should be up to most jobs (we are aware of the requirement to import PSDs flattened, rather than layered as they are now, or at least have the option.) So if there are cases where you know they do not work - tell us. (We're also aware of the greyscale limitation.)

As you know, PDF is a final presentational form. Not everything that can be expressed in a PDF can be opened for editing, not even by the originating application. AI, for example, cannot interpret its own PDFs fully. But it doesn't need to as there is the private data fork it will open assuming it has been saved in the PDF.

I get many AI files that simply have not been saved with PDF data. I can guarantee XDP cannot open most any of them unless they have been saved in a now-ancient AI format. In other words, I care about opening/importing the AI data, the newer EPS files I get without using another piece of software.

Regarding Text Styles - I think our Style system is as powerful as anyone's, so is it just a usability thing wanting to see the full Style definition in an editable 'properties panel?

Yes, in part. Also would be a useful dialog with all text properties present. As you have some version of ID, and perhaps PP, open a style for editing its properties. They are vastly more comprehensive that what can be achieved in XDP. In that regard, no XDP's text styles are not as "powerful as anyone's." Not even close in nearly any regard.

Nor are text frames in XDP as useful. Nor styles for other objects. For instance, how will Xara handle tables in the future if it desires to be a "DTP" solution? Tables are next to worthless currently but are a staple in many types of documents. And as I have mentioned in the past, tables are one of those things that have applicability for your web customers as well.

(We chose to do it 'on the page' instead of in a separate settings panel.) So to see all the Style values just place the caret in the style and the InfoBar (which is, in effect, our properties panel) shows you all the settings at a glance. To change any Style value just change it in the document and select 'update style'. That's a pretty easy and straightforward and I have difficulty understanding what benefits presenting this another way would have? We could lay that our vertically in a panel, but that would simple take a lot more space.

Yes, currently there is a properties panel arrangement. That is useful in everything I use for layout. I also prefer to have it remain on-screen ala ID and QXP versus the "subject" of this thread, PP. I absolutely dislike the context aware swapping in and out of a properties bar happening as I select various types of items.

For text styles, I believe for the creation of styles, a property bar arrangement is not as efficient as a dialog as per PP, ID, QXP, etc. Further, once created, modifying styles when more than a single property is involved is easier done in a dialog. And, I would prefer a "live" preview on-page of the changes I am making ala ID.

So why a dialog driven means as per ID/QXP/PP, or in a "Gallery" arrangement as per CD? As Xara extends what it can do as regard text properties, there simply will not be room on a property bar for some/many of the properties than can be manipulated. Once Xara adds rules above/below, OT Features, tab control, alignment/spacing, bullets and numbering, breaks, language, initial word, drop caps, etc, Xara will have to rethink how this is presented to the user. I would recommend starting now.

Below is a screen shot of a smallish catalog I did in PP a couple years ago. It makes use of tables extensively for the options of each item. A page will have as few as 2 images, as many as 30. While not a large catalog in terms of page count and asset size, there are nearly 380 images. Laying this out in XDP would be a heavy chore.



So:

(1) Tables. I could care less about math functions myself. My tables are presentational. But there will be others who would like to use such a table feature.

(2) Table styles. All the tables above use table styles. No different than text styles, really. Provides consistency.

(3) Ability to attach a table to Excel data for future updating.

Mike