CMYK Export

[jens g.r. benthien]

all I can say:

Amen Mr. Hair Splitter.

And best regards to the Swedish forest. BTW, how do you actually print - carving the trees in your woods with your well trained pre-press eyes, drowning them into ink pots and then stamping a rag cloth with it?

Ok, don't need to answer, I'm just curious ;-}

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[Klaus Nordby]

Fedor: " Xara EPS contain good CMYK gradient. (tested by Photoshop)."

Fedor my fine friend, I will publish my testing procedure for EPS later today - which very clearly shows the opposite result.

K
www.klausnordby.com/xara (big how-to article)
www.xaraxone.com/FeaturedArt/kn/ (I was the first-ever featured artist in the Xone)
www.graphics.com (columnist, "The I of The Perceiver")

[Sheff]

I would like to see CMYK export. That would make my life a hell of a lot easier. I can't believe that you guys are arguing against it.

I think a CMKY export of JPEG is fine. CMYK Tiff, even better. CMYK Photoshop or Tiff file with layers intact would be best of all.

The whole point of asking for it is to minimize the number of applications you have to use to convert Xara output. There have been so many occasions where I have had to take layered Xara files, export each layer as a PNG to keep transparency, rebuild the file in layers in Photoshop, and convert everything to CMYK. What a major hassle. And the thing is, I need to have both RGB and CMYK because the art is for both screen and print.

Converting RBG to CMYK is a very simple task for Photoshop, however it still necessitates opening Photoshop. If there are enough layers in Photoshop that I've imported from Xara, it seriously diminishes Xara's practicality. If the time spent converting Xara files MEETS OR EXCEEDS the time it takes to build the file in the first place, I might as well have not used Xara at all.

The people I've mainly dealt with have wanted CMYK Tiff files. And they've preferred to do their own seps.

I usually convert CMYK to RGB before importing into Xara as the colors don't look right when I import a CMYK. Then I have to convert Xara output back to CMYK. If Xara can indeed import CMYK, please make sure the colors look right or at least close to what the other apps represent as CMYK. When I import CMYK, Xara seems to push the contrast and color intensity. Imported CMYK images look very garish.

But ideally, import and export of CMYK tiff's and/or jpegs would be great. In terms of implementation, I think that a radio button for CMYK or RGB on the export dialogue box would suffice.

I like Jens, and agree with some of the things he has said, but some of his opinions are highly biased and not necessarily typical of Xara users. I appreciate your asking other Xara users for their opinions.

Sheffield Abella
www.sheff.com

[This message was edited by Sheffield Abella on October 23, 2003 at 12:23.]

[FAx]

Klaus, you right. I make some tests and see no way make PDF without RGBcolors. It so strange.

Im use FlightCheck 5.02 for check Xara EPSAI - test passed, no RGB. I try to make PDFX - Distiller yelling about wrong color space. I make standart PDF and go validate it - he full of RGB colors.. Whats wrong?!!

Today im no have Illustrator, tomorrow im try to make native Illustrator EPS (gradient) and resave Xara EPS in Illustrator. Probably, im understand where that problem..

Jens, rest in peace and don`t worry about cmyk, eps, gradient troubles. http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

So!, FAx
www.artin.ru | fax@goody.ru | icq 39779414
www.livejournal.com/users/faxenoff

[Sheff]

I have no idea what it takes to create code for something like Xara.

But I have made requests of programmers that they have been able to put into the executable and that's the whole point of this diatribe.

Charles asked users what they want in terms of CMYK export. And I answered his question. They want to know how their customers use Xara. I included the graphic to illustrate how I think that functionality should be implemented.

If they decide that the user must determine from the outset whether or not a Xara file should be RGB or CMYK then so be it.

I don't know what it takes to get there, but I DO think it should be that easy. We shouldn't have to fight a program's lack of features or share with each other our techniques and work arounds. The features should be there. If not, they should add them.

It's better that we tell them what we want and let them decide how and whether or not they can do it. I'm not going to try and guess what their capabilities are or how many man hours its going to take. I'm just going to tell them what's important to me.

We've all waited for them to begin working on XX2. I think it's pointless for users to say no to other users feature requests. That's not your job or responsibility to decide what features are possible or not. That's ultimately Xara's decision.

It just seems that a number of threads on this forum deal with printing problems and export format issues. I think its something Xara needs to work on. If you think their time is better spent on other aspects of the program, lets hear what you want Xara to do.

Sheffield Abella
www.sheff.com

[roman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fedor "FAx" Axenoff:
Ok. You can set it or can set anythnig else.
Your settings not transfered to EPS output or printing. One way to make overprint live - print separated. 8-)

understand me?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you set it like this it goes into separations. It goes into export. I don't understand what do you mean.

[Klaus Nordby]

Fedor, I too now have tested the EPS with the very latest version of Ghostscript. And the PDF which it exported had ALL the same problems I have been seeing all the time: the 50% blacK in the gradations is no longer 50% blacK - but a wholly new CMYK combination, which proves, once again, that a RGB/CMYK conversion has taken place.

So the CMYK colors I define in Xara X do not ouput the way I intend them too. THAT, in a nutshell, is what we NEED.

K
www.klausnordby.com/xara (big how-to article)
www.xaraxone.com/FeaturedArt/kn/ (I was the first-ever featured artist in the Xone)
www.graphics.com (columnist, "The I of The Perceiver")

[jens g.r. benthien]

sure I did. If you have a good PS driver, the results are identical with the Xara X *.eps output.

Give it a try. Print the single printing plates for each color. Do whatever you want - the results will be just perfect.

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[Klaus Nordby]

Some separation tests I just did with Xara X shows that _flat_ colors defined as CMYK seems to separate fine: the exact CMYK values come out, unchanged. But as soon as _gradients_ are used, XX's infernal internal (sic!) algorithm messes royally with the CMYK values, using its own GCR/UCR methods.

My guess is (but I don't know this for sure) that XX's gradients only work in RGB space - hence the CMYK values you input are always inevitably distorted in the converson process.

So if your art never uses any gradients, you will probably be fine in separating from XX. As for me, I doubt I have ever made any piece in XX which doesn't use gradient colors - and so I would never gamble on using XX for separations.

K
www.klausnordby.com/xara (big how-to article)
www.xaraxone.com/FeaturedArt/kn/ (I was the first-ever featured artist in the Xone)
www.graphics.com (columnist, "The I of The Perceiver")

[alexbozhenov]

Charles,

I would like to see correct Font names after exporting to AI from XaraX... Even if I use the Western fonts (even not Cyrillic), I always get in AI all fonts substituted to Times...

===============
alexander



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