No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

[samrc]

@Gary Thank you for bringing back the thread.

Handrawn said: in her final post in the closed thread kate (webmaster) confirmed that updates are lost if you reinstall on a new or modified computer so it is very important to capture those updates in the way i mentioned there

I purchased in February 2020 so version 16.3 is the version that I would be eligible to reinstall. The install file I downloaded from Xara requires an update to get me to 16.3. I don't trust the program will "auto update" to 16.3.
That means I need to try installing the program on my old beast computer so I can grab the update exe file for future use.

Handrawn said: I don't know why the last dated release before the subscription ended shouldn't be the install that that user has available after the subscription finishes.

It makes sense that if the program stops 16 and goes to version 17 during my 365 day service, those updates could not be reinstalled. It goes to a different version than what I purchased.

I agree Handrawn. I am in a current 365 service agreement. Which means I should be eligible to retain and reinstall any update to the version 16 program that arrives during my 365 days. If during my 365 day service agreement we receive a 16.4 update, I should be eligible to retain and reinstall it.

However based on Kate @Xara response, I would NOT be able to reinstall any update I receive after the 16.3, even if it is for the version 16 program. Clearly this means The 365 allows the user to "rent" updates beyond purchase date but does not entitle them to reinstall them.

Hypothetical situation based on her statement: (Please help me to understand if I am wrong)
Let's say I renew my 365 next February 2021.
And update 16.4 and 17.1 arrive during the 2 years between purchase on 02/17/20 and 02/16/2022.
If I stop paying for the 365 service, I revert back to version 16.3 on reinstall since that is the version I purchased.
This convinces me to never renew the 365 service. And not accept or use any update after the 16.3
Thank you @Xara for clarifying.

The better route is to wait until the next full version release, download a 30 day trial, test its capabilities and purchase if I like it.
Grab the content manually since Xara does not provide it and then I know for sure I can reinstall the exact version I purchase.


For me, these are as important as the capabilities of the program itself:
1. Work Offline, not depend on a constant internet connection (due to traveling to areas without internet - yes they still exist!)
2. Reinstall on a new hard drive or new computer when necessary. I have had bad luck. Complete hard drive failures where reinstall was necessary. It happened in 2015 on a brand new DELL computer so age and use do not predict hard drive stability. Sometimes you have no choice.

I have bought the CD versions, not just the download versions for ease of reinstall, content and not depending on internet connection. (That practice has now stopped. I was charged $14.99 for a CD that contained no content, just another copy of the basic program, worthless to me.)

Obviously Xara's current model does not take users like me into account. They expect EVERYONE to have internet connection and don't really want people to reinstall.


Just as an example
This is on the HOME PAGE of my backup software. Nothing hidden, no guesswork. Xara could be this clear about their program.

When you purchase any software from 2BrightSparks, you receive a perpetual license. This means that you can continue to use the version you purchased indefinitely and without restrictions. The software will not expire. All minor version upgrades are free, e.g. upgrading from V9.1 to V9.2 would be free. However, major version upgrades (e.g. V9 to V10) are not free and you are not entitled to free technical support.

[ss-kalm]

... Let's say I renew my 365 next February 2021.

No, you are always entitled to the current version on the date you renew. So when you pay to renew the update service in February 2021, you would then forever be entitled to reinstall the version current on that date. Hopefully 17.3 ...

[samrc]

Thank you.

I purchased in Feb 2020. I am locked in for version 16.3 I can play with any updates that come in during this 365 day but all will be lost if I do not upgrade to new version if I have to reinstall next year. Any content will be lost if I do not download/backup for reinstall.

Potentially...A year from now, I purchase the UPGRADE (currently $129) for whatever version is available.
That version is what I can reinstall from that point on. But any further updates & content would be lost if I had to reinstall.

Another program I am updating offered upgrade, with basic 90 day support or a support contract of a year.
I was thinking Xara 365 service was an optional support choice, different than just upgrading to new version for a year. Got it.

As I said before, these are as important as the capabilities of the program itself:
1. Work Offline (local content)
2. Reinstall on a new hard drive or new computer when necessary.

If the 365 service included reinstall of any update to same version (example up to 16.4 from 16.3) then the 365 days service makes sense.

Even with a clearer understanding of the 365 service, I am still convinced I will not accept any updates from here on out. Since I can not reinstall them without a new purchase, they are of no value to me until I want to upgrade to a new version.

[browj2]

@samrc

Hi,

To avoid more confusion, please do not refer to the Update Service as Xara 365 service or even mention 365. Xara dropped that nomenclature a couple of years ago. Magix has products that are actually called xxxx 365. These are real subscription products, meaning that if you don't pay, they don't work anymore. There is no Xara 365. Xara keeps on working after one year, even if you don't renew.

See this link to the UK Update Service.

If you pay for the Update Service 1 year from now, usually meaning an Upgrade to a new version, then you will get updates and new versions for 1 year following that date. If you had to reinstall within that year, then you would get whatever is available on that date, including any new features or versions. If you have to reinstall after the one year is up and you have not renewed, then the program reverts to whatever was available when you last paid.

What are the chances that you will have to reinstall after the end of the one year period? Likely not very high unless you are planning on getting a new computer or something. Then you have almost no problem. Should you have to reinstall after the end of the one year period and you have not renewed, and you want the features/version that came out, then simply renew at that time. Otherwise, don't renew.

I did not renew when it came up in July. I made sure to download all of the online content before that date and to update to the latest version. I have not had to reinstall Xara since. In fact, I have not had to reinstall Xara for several years; the last time being when I purchased a laptop in 2016. If I have to reinstall Xara, I will pay to renew at that time, or it would revert to version 15, not 16.

Overall, I am better off. Before the update service started, I would have had to pay for version 15 and then again for 16. Now, I have 16 - but I paid for 15. When version 17 comes out, and a few patches later, I may consider renewing. That would likely give me version 17 and then 18 plus a few patches within the year- without having to pay twice like I would have had to do before.

One more thing that people forget. Before the Update Service, we got a lot of content with the program, but most of the good stuff, like almost all of the templates and widgets, we had to purchase separately, piecemeal. When the Update Service started, we got access to ALL of the online content included with an upgrade to the new version by paying for only an upgrade to that version.

Would everyone here like to scrap the Update Service and go back to paying for a new version every year and having to buy the (new) stuff in the online catalogue on top of the upgrade price? Not me.

Magix video editors and Music Maker have an in-app Store in which one can purchase features, presets and content, as bundles or individually. There are things for as little as 69 cents. I don't think that we would like to see something like this happen to the on-line catalogue.

[Gypsyjoe]

The 365 model isn't correct anyway. In a previous thread of which I am not sure how to find, on one day XDPX worked just fine. I "did not" change hard drive "did not" reinstall the very next day when I started XDPX I got a screen that I needed to register it. I have no clue what happened as I had not changed anything. When I tried to register it, it would not let me as it said that I had used my 2 installs on 2 computers, I was on one of the 2 computers still am. After contacting xara support and having them remove the computer I was on so I could reregister it, it would not work so at that point I had to reinstall to get XDPX to work again and be able to reregister it on the same computer. Lost all of my updates that I had from the previous year. My point being is I did nothing for it to require me to reregister or reinstall it quit working all on its own as it was working just fine when I went to bed the previous evening. Yet because of what the program did I lost all of my updates. So don't think it can't happen and with their model you are back to square one!!!! They should have a way that you can save your updates without them disappearing into thin air once they install since they are going to require you to go back to square one if there is ever a problem whether it is your fault or their programs fault!!!!

[handrawn]

buying separately, owning the use indefinitely no matter what computer i use in the future, only buying what i need, no risk of getting locked into an update cycle.. that all sounds good to me....

[handrawn]

there is a way to save the update at the time they are ready to install - see the other thread as i mentioned in post #3 here

[Acorn]

This is an interesting page to work from: https://www.magix.com/gb/photo-graph...pdate-history/.

Initially, many excitements around Templates and Templates and Photo Filters until SmartShapes erupted.
More meaty delivery from Oct 2018 then SmartShapes and SmartShapes.
Web page scaling and Object SVG export.
Finally, PDF/X cropping and Saved angles.

Forecast: v17.0 late March 2020, a five-month wait for - Templates, tweaks to some SmartShapes and little else.
This is because Xara Cloud has all the developers and the desktop applications have to play keep up. There have been some good cross-overs between the SaaS environment and the Desktop but keeping the two locked will always be a drag on the Desktop: SaaS Xara Cloud has 70 updates to a questionable 7 for the Desktop.

Xara 365 service was still in play for v15 so only one major version back.

Acorn

---

Update History	Version
April 2017	v12.6 or thereabouts
July 2017	v12.8
December 2017	v15.0
March 2018	???
June 2018	v15.1
October 2018	v16.0
March 2019	v16.1
June 2019	v16.2
October 2019	v16.3

[samrc]

@browj2

What are the chances that you will have to reinstall after the end of the one year period? Likely not very high unless you are planning on getting a new computer or something. Then you have almost no problem.

I have had some computers for 6-10 years, well past their prime. I don't like moving into new machines. I have had experiences that were not complete failures, but damaged sectors on drives so certain software needed to be reinstalled. No virus, trojan, or malware caused the problems. Even careful users of computers can have unexpected hardware issues. One brand new DELL died at 5 months old. Drive would not fire up at all. even in an envelope trying to just get data extracted. It was a nightmare. Years ago a gentleman I used to help with website, bought a machine with C: mirrored to D:. C eventually died so he took his machine to "the pc guy" he knew to move D into C slot. Instead, "the pc guy" took out the C, reformatted D and my friend was left with nothing.
So YES having the ability to reinstall is vital for me. Knowing what I can reinstall is vital for me. If you have not had any of these issues you are indeed lucky.

@GypsyJoe
I agree. I am moving into a new laptop so have gone through several software installs. Some make it easy, simple. Place update.exe files in same folder as the install file for easy storage. The way this is done poor. And the information from Xara/Magix is poor.

@Handrawn
I installed v16 on my old monster computer. Thankfully it stayed on long enough for me to register, get the update file (move to external drive) and deregister the machine. Then 11 minutes later...blue screen. You and @Acorn have been so helpful with the program and the content. Getting the files onto the external, with notes, I feel so much better. I hope and pray this new machine gives me many years of service. If it doesn't at least I can rebuild my Xara.

buying separately, owning the use indefinitely no matter what computer i use in the future, only buying what i need, no risk of getting locked into an update cycle.. that all sounds good to me....

I agree 100%

@Acorn

Forecast: v17.0 late March 2020, a five-month wait for - Templates, tweaks to some SmartShapes and little else.

Well, 6 weeks after my purchase of 16, the new version will come out. (heavy sigh)
I'm not going to install it. Don't want to get used to a feature that I will lose if I reinstall.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease that it is not something I will be desperate to have.
I am so glad I came to post. I wouldn't have captured the content, or the update file, learned what has happened since I last purchased.