I have to admit, Illy's pretty darn good

[Big Frank]

it should be good for the price

[mwenz]

I sure dislike discussions which revolve around price. Pricing is really a take it or leave it thing and has little to do with the issues. For many, DP is too expensive. So? For others even more budget conscious, P&G is expensive. Again, so?

Illy does work well for what it does, but isn't a do all, end all product. There are features designers have been longing for in Illy and likely will never get. Sound familiar?

I have and still use Illustrator for some things. Mostly I use it when it is a company/job requirement as my design work is rather simply and doesn't tax the capabilities in either it or DP.

Nice design, Bob. And it is a happy accident you achieved. I wouldn't have known it was an accident if you hadn't mentioned it. The elements outside the clip just look right.

Take care, Mike

[Big Frank]

I sure dislike discussions which revolve around price.

so you dont compare products in the supermarket

[handrawn]

sorry Frank, but you are being silly - I don't believe for a moment you do not understand what is being said

what matters is that you get what you want and you get it at a fair price - there are many who need what illustrator has, and the price for that is reasonable; if you don't need it well, its not even an issue, is it

[Big Frank]

no, what is silly is not talking about value for money

Adobe Illustrator CS5 €860,00 convert

Adobe Photoshop CS5 €969,90 convert

Adobe CS5.5 Design Standard €1 895,24 convert

links from amazon.fr

no wonder 99% of people who use it have a pirate copy

i paid a grand for my copy of cs1 and regretted it ever since not because its crap software but because its hugely overpriced and in the end i found workarounds for everything using non-adobe prods

and yes i compare products in the supermarket not because im poor but because i dont like being ripped off and this is no different

[mwenz]

Even "ripped off" is a value judgment for the individual to make. You obviously have made that judgment as regards your purchase. Others perhaps make a different value judgment. Neither is the right nor the wrong judgment in this case.

I do some testing for some very reasonably priced software. One title can be purchased for about $50 legally. There are known to be tens of thousands of illegitimate copies floating around world wide. Ripping off a company--because that is what it is--is not done by people with a modicum of ethics. And the flip side is that people who desire to steal will do so regardless of the cost of the software.

Take care, Mike

[handrawn]

no wonder 99% of people who use it have a pirate copy

hyperbole

I can quite happily accept it is not for you Frank and you are entitled to think it is crap - but that does not mean it is crap and it does not make it bad value for money in it's target markets which are corporate

just like the vector editor that I happen to know you do use, illustrator comes with a 30day trial period, long enough to check it out in comparision with said other editor which I know you have had for a long time

eyebrows are always raised elsewhere when people say they buy product without taking full advantage of trial period..but I've done it myself and it is annoying true

the reason I said you were being silly is this - in a computer warehouse [hypermarket] I have a whole load of choice - just recently I needed a new color printer and I could have spent anything from 200 GBP to 2000 GBP or more - the higher end machines do all sorts of things I simply don't need, and they are sometimes rather complicated to setup and or use ... this does not make them crap, and it does not make them a rip off, just because I can print perfectly well from a much lower end machine - it just means they are oriented to a different set of requirements and environments

[Big Frank]

you are basing your reply on the premise that highly priced products are inherently better than lower priced products

that is simply not true, it is, in fact, silly