Moderators / Xhris dispute

[handrawn]

John

this is language thing I think

read it as 'sticking to facts we each know'

the italics is a given in the expression that I used

that is the whole point - I do not have much actual fact here, hence my position - neutral

[covoxer]

Then you are obviously wrong. What is worth an opinion based on incomplete facts which you happen to know?
In other words, continuing off-topic? And criticizing moderator acts?

Now let me remind everyone here - this forum is still moderated and rules apply.

Thank you for understanding.

[angelize]

Xhris was making himself out to be a self proclaimed moderator that is fact. He was suspended for it that also is fact. Bill explained all of this in a thread a few days ago that thread is now gone that too is fact.

Xhris has been re-instated again fact. Moderators that originally suspended him were overruled by Xara (Who else would have the authority to overrule this many mods) Bill has left Talkgraphics and Egg has resigned because of it also FACT. Enough facts for you?

@Covoxer: Can you answer a question I've been asking all day? Why is Xhris allowed to get away scott free with impersonating a moderator?

[pauland]

It's all a bit like a western where the locals go out and look for someone to lynch after the local sheriff has been winding up one of the townsfolk who waltzed around in a deputies badge and the sheriffs got told off by the Marshal from out of town.

I'm sure that sounds like an oversimplification, but I'm sure I can hear spurs clanking on the floor. Them Sheriffs can look after themselves, pardner. They can kick the Marshall into touch and have stiff words with the errant cowboy.

What is for sure is that them well meaning townsfolk have only half the story and the baddies don't go around wearing black and some of them Sheriffs need to be handled with care.

Clint Eastwood will be around soon!

[angelize]

I think there is a very simple way to put this all to rest.

First Xhris's suspension should be re- imposed. No one should be allowed to impersonate a moderator ever.

Second even though we may at times not like their decisions we should all, everyone of us say thank you to the mods and not abuse them.

[handrawn]

I'll not argue with you John, nor your mis-interpretation of my words

Apologies for off topic - I guess I should know better

[covoxer]

Ok, now since everybody spoke, I can express my personal opinion too.
This conflict is a result of multiple human factors and mistakes including overestimation and overreaction. Reading this and other similar threads I see people tend to accuse either Xara or moderators in doing something wrong. But in fact it's not that simple. Obviously, the conflict between Xara and moderators has a place here, but the reasons of it starting and what's more important - escalating, are numerous and source of all of them are in the behaviour of some of the TG members. I shall not call the names here and now, but for anyone active on this forum it is obvious that some people tend to provoke moderators while others don't. Moderators are human beings, and they are volunteers, so they can make some mistakes. It happens. But the more they are criticized or pushed, the more mistakes they make. That's why we have a rule to not discuss moderator actions publicly. And everyone who had contributed to breaking it bears the fault in what had happened here.
Xara as a company has it's commercial interests. This is a huge responsibility and requires to make decisions. Not always they are popular. And again - they may not always be perfectly right as they are made by human. But there are always reasons for them.
So at the end of the day we have moderators overreacting because of some members and Xara overreacting because of all the talk about the overmoderation here... As the result we have some people who stood here at the roots of this community formation leave, and some others, who are to blame, having a good day....

All said here is my personal opinion as a TG member.

[angelize]

John you still never answered my question. Xhris had a signature that read "Self Proclaimed Moderator. that to me sure sounds like impersonating a moderator. Why is he being allowed off the hook for that? Either this means there is one set of rules for Xhris and one set for the rest of us or we can all proclaim ourselves moderators. What a mess that would be.

[The Alien]

OK, I haven't been replying in a long time, but I have been visiting TG almost daily. I was really startled by the recent events. But here is what I make of it:
Regarding the whole "Without Xara there is no TG" vs "without TG there is no Xara" discussion. Which is it? I believe in both. TG and Xara are so intertwined that one of them would not be properly defined when the other is left out.
In the same way I say this: without moderators there is no TG. Without members there is no TG. Meaning that TG would not be TG if there was no moderation. However, take away the regular members and there would be no TG left either. What I mean by this is: members should not have the power to do whatever they want, but neither should the mods. Giving all the power to the mods and not being allowed to question their decisions in public is similar - in my eyes - to a dictatorship where you're not allowed to question the leader.
I've seen some instances in the past where the mods sounded a bit awkward in their enforcing the rules, but that's offtopic atm. That is not to say they haven't done a fine job.

If someone is punished by mods for breaking the rules, others should be allowed to see the events that lead to punishment (excluding the thread on the mod's board). If they (the members) disagree, they should be allowed to say so and state their arguments. If many people feel the punishment should be reconsidered, the mods should do that. The way it works now is that basically, the mod's answer is final and if you try to discuss the matter (with the rest of the community), then it's Thread Closed. Wrong.
Having said that, I do think that on a forum, the mods and eventually the admin should be the ones that make the decisions. If Xara* decided that Xhris be reinstated, then that's wrong. Xara may voice their opinion and argue that the mods reconsider. They can not just overrule the mods. I don't care whether Xara merely support, have a share in or completely own TG; it's not their call, simple as that. If they wanna make such decisions, then by all means, let them become the moderators and let's see how good a job they make of it.

I personally believe that moderating is a learning process. You learn from your mistakes. Make a mistake --> community reacts to it --> you learn from it to become better --> repeat.

*) Do note that I was not behind the scenes, haven't followed all the discussions on here and some posts/thread(s) were deleted, so I can't say whether all of Xara were in on this or if it was just a few Xara members. I'm working with what little info I get.

That's why we have a rule to not discuss moderator actions publicly.

I respect the opinion you've given, but you have no idea how wrong that quote sounds in my ears. For me personally, it's borderline provocation

[covoxer]

I personally believe that moderating is a learning process. You learn from your mistakes. Make a mistake --> community reacts to it --> you learn from it to become better --> repeat.

These people had a 10 years of solid experience doing so.

I respect the opinion you've given, but you have no idea how wrong that quote sounds in my ears. For me personally, it's borderline provocation

Nevertheless you had agreed with it when registering on this forum.