Feedback

[Sheff]

The question is, where should feedback take place?

It is not my intention to open a can of worms but it seems to me that these discussions asking for feedback should take place on another forum.
I think if someone wants feedback it should be a link back to their own website with a place where people can respond, ideally in a forum hosted on your website, not in the Xara forum.

It just seems like more and more threads are only tangentially related to Xara or are for other applications to make up for 1.0d's shortcomings.

It always bothers me when people do designs on this forum and then other people post their designs in response. Only one person is being paid for their work. Everyone else is doing it for free. What if someone comes up with an idea and another person uses it and gets paid. Does the first person deserve anything? Why pay for design when you can post to a forum like this and get several designs for free? What does this do to established pricing structures?

It just concerns me when I see people doing work and not getting paid. I have nothing against asking for feedback, only where that should take place.

If I'm way off base with everyone here I apologize, but I think its something to think about.

Sheffield Abella
www.sheff.com

[Sheff]

The question is, where should feedback take place?

It is not my intention to open a can of worms but it seems to me that these discussions asking for feedback should take place on another forum.
I think if someone wants feedback it should be a link back to their own website with a place where people can respond, ideally in a forum hosted on your website, not in the Xara forum.

It just seems like more and more threads are only tangentially related to Xara or are for other applications to make up for 1.0d's shortcomings.

It always bothers me when people do designs on this forum and then other people post their designs in response. Only one person is being paid for their work. Everyone else is doing it for free. What if someone comes up with an idea and another person uses it and gets paid. Does the first person deserve anything? Why pay for design when you can post to a forum like this and get several designs for free? What does this do to established pricing structures?

It just concerns me when I see people doing work and not getting paid. I have nothing against asking for feedback, only where that should take place.

If I'm way off base with everyone here I apologize, but I think its something to think about.

Sheffield Abella
www.sheff.com

[joroho]

Sheffield, While I understand the nature of your concern, I feel that this forum is informal enough that we can solicit feedback here. I can't tell you how much I've learned from people submitting ideas requesting feedback and then watch the group go to work (voluntarily) on suggesting possible enhancements. If you're concerned about people not getting paid, then you need to take that up with the people who offer their suggestions for free. I suspect it's not really a big problem here, given the high level of cooperation we enjoy here. Most of us are just eager for opportunities to show off what Xara can do.

That's my $0.02. (You did make the mistake of asking for it.)

.joroho.

http://www.joroho.com/initials.gif

[Lord]

I agree with Joroho, when i post feedback for anything, may be design, Graphick, or Responce.
I don’t think about who get paid? me or the others it dose not matter and if i think like this then i do not need to give any feedback.
And like Joroho, i enjoy evryday to see what happen in our Xara Forum, we learn evryday somthing new in using Xara and Nobody asks about
paid or mony..... Just enjoy Xara X
Regards...
Lord(Mohamed)

[Sheff]

My point isn't so much about what Xara can do, we all know what it can(and can't) do.

It's about the individual artists, it's the artist not the tool that makes the difference. If someone is a good artist, then they will produce better work with better tools. If they are not very good, then no tool, no matter how good the tool is, will change that.

I think asking for feedback is fine. I just think the discussion should take place elsewhere. Or at least elswhere on this forum just for feedback only. I'm not sure about posting an image in response. If I saw something that someone posted that I wanted to use, I would have moral issues with that, regardless if it was offered freely. That's why I don't ask for feedback on work for a client, nor do I offer it. And I don't think anyone here cares either way.

It just seems to me that the lack of the Xara update has turned this into a forum that is increasingly going more off topic.

Sheffield Abella
www.sheff.com

[This message was edited by Sheffield Abella on January 22, 2004 at 11:31.]

[roman]

If I recall my first moves in this forum I remember how much fun we had with exploring of the new possibilities of xara, new techniques and tricks. It's still the same, I didn't notice any offtopic movements. It still stayed a Xara Forum. I can understand your worries, but I don't think this forum is going offtopic, especially not because of people asking for feedback to their creations.

As far as problem of one person being paid and stuff. Yeah I also have problems to send my ideas here into the forum, firstly because I think my customers would maybe have some objections, secondly I don't want too be influenced too much, and thirdly even when it's already finished and the final stage picked up I don't feel like it's good enough to deserve to be put here ;-)))

[Albacore]

I totally disargree Sheffield, I have posted many drawing asking for feedback and receiving both positive and negative and have used this feedback to enhance my drawing and ideas.

I would hate to think that this process was curtailed in any way, what would happen to Egg's great cartoons would that be used only in e-mail where no one could see it. This time I think you are of the wall on this one. Just because Gary and a few others ask for the sites opion on lets say their logo's would you really stop someone making both suggestions and giving more ideas or refining other logos to improve their layout. I think this is one of the most important aspects of this site and forum where no one is afraid to make comments and sugest improvements and even give through drawings ideas to better the drawing out od the goodness of their own heart. What would the moderators be left with but to make remarks about a submission. The mods would not be able to show mistakes and give the ideas where the artist should go.

Pease leave this alone and let the body of the forum make their own minds up whither to help or not. Do not let this forum devolve into a "nanny state" where people think before helping other people, this forum works well at the moment with people helping each other without consideration on what they are doing. One time I used one idea from this forum in my professional work, I think it was a "Celtic Knot" but before I used it I asked,and to my surprise this person supplied the XaraX doc. which was unsolicated and that doc i used with minor modificatios. Should I have sent the supplier of that doc a percentage of my fee for the percentage of the whole work if so then that percentage would have been about $3.

I find this site inceadable for its help, its critque, its plain speaking and most of all for its knowledge and i would hate to see it anyway cutailed.

I think this time Seffield you are "off the wall" with this posting.

[RTK]

I really enjoy the threads where ideas are bounced around - including the ones with feedback on designs.

I have blown my lid a couple of times (http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/frown.gif) when people just come in and ask for a free logo or banner for their business or website... However, I don't find it to be the same as when someone is trying to do it themselves, with everyone's feedback and help.

Have there really been that many threads at TG where someone was working on a commercial job, and the final design was developed from feedback? Yes, one could argue that there would be more work for professional designers (which I am not) if everyone was totally left to their own devices... but hey, where do you draw the line?

Having ideas and views openly explored is one of TG's strongest points IMHO. I don't think I have ever come across a forum which is more generous when it comes to this.

Risto

risto@ristoklint.com

Visit my web site!

[Sheff]

Like I said, if I offended anyone, I apologize.

I am not opposed to feedback. I have noticed that on other forums that have a lot more people posting a lot more images, that they have sections dedicated to feedback.

I was only concered about feedback on client jobs not with personal work. I'm in a situation now where I could use feedback, but I honestly don't feel comfortable asking for it.

But, I will drop the topic as everyone seems to feel the same way about it. Sorry to have wasted your time.

Sheffield Abella
www.sheff.com

[RTK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sheff: Like I said, if I offended anyone, I apologize.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
--- You didn't offend anyone, I'm sure... It takes much more than a valid concern to make an a** out of yourself at TG - trust me on that one! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sheff: Sorry to have wasted your time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
--- I don't think this is a waste of time at all. I'm sure the administrator (Anthony?) and the moderators of TG value input like this.

At one point or another "feedback" moves into the area of "morally objectional" use of this place. Defining that area could be tricky though... But hey, the administrator and moderators need to do some work around here too, right!? http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sheff: I'm in a situation now where I could use feedback, but I honestly don't feel comfortable asking for it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
--- And I would think that sometimes you can't publish the work for copyright reasons, but there are people here who have been around for a long time that I'm sure could provide feedback privately, without you risking breaking any clauses in your contract.

Risto

risto@ristoklint.com

Visit my web site!

[This message was edited by Risto Klint on January 22, 2004 at 15:04.]