Feedback from a new user.

[Hawk]

Got Xtreme 5 yesterday and have been playing around with it for about 7 hours total now. Here are my comments as to the user friendly and other things I've noticed so far.
(I currently use Web Studio 4.(WS4) http://webstudio.com and am comparing to this software) I wanted to find another user friendly web builder.

1. Not user friendly for beginners. (nor I suspect intermediate users)

2. Biggest disappointment so far... The total lack of being able to drag and drop animated .Gifs into either the header or anywhere else. If nothing else, I cannot believe animated .gifs created with "Xara 3D" can't be dragged and dropped into "Xtreme 5"
2.a The .gifs that are dropped do not work properly. Example: In WS4 I can click on "import" go to the .gif and click ok to load my Xara3D animated header (and it works flawlessly) I can resize it to whatever dimensions I want by dragging the size window... Not so with X5 (come on guys, it's your own software) Does not even recognize the Xara3D format.

3. Definitly a powerful program, but limited web templates make it useless for new users.

4. Wow, if you could take the user friendly abilities of WS4 and make Xtreme5 that way, you'd have one heck of a program.

5. Love Xara 5.... Don't like Xtreme. (for the above reasons)
Most look for software that doesn't need such a learning curve. Think more work needs to be done to make it more user friendly to the beginner or intermediate user.

6. If you could incorporate the ability to seamlessly add animated .gifs (or at least the Xara3D recognition) that would sure beat the horrid stripped down version you've added to Xtreme5. (lol, after using Xara3D for several years

Sorry Xara, but the forum did say "feed back". Hopefully you'll take a look at WS4 and see what I mean. I say this understanding the differences between Flash and WYSIWYG. You make some terrific software.... Now if you can just make it more user friendly

[steve.ledger]

Sorry Xara, but the forum did say "feed back".

Welcome to the Talkgraphics Forums Hawk.

I have moved your thread to a the Xara Web Designer / Xara Xtreme forum as the Announcements and Feeback forum is not for discussing Xara software but rather for For questions and suggestions about the forums.

[Karateed]

Hi Hawk,

I actually find your post a little inaccurate for me at least...I've only been using Xara Xtreme for a little over a week now and find it to be very user friendly. Is there a learning curve? Yup some but any beginner would have no problem from the help files, video files, tutorials, forum...etc to figure out whatever they need to do in these programs.

I've never used the Xara programs before but have mostly completed a website (waiting for the text to be given me then it will be done) and worked on an ad for a catalog.

Again, I love it's ease of use and I haven't used graphic programs where you can just drop something on a page and surprise, it gives you what you want.

The member's tutorials on some of the things you are saying don't work the way you like certainly show you how to do things very easily. I've created a spinning logo, some 3D stuff, all with the help of the great people on this forum.

Just my own thoughts.....btw....after 7 hours with web designer (subset of Xara really I think) I had the web site mostly done including popup graphics....sooooo easy it was too.

[bcire68]

Hi Hawk and welcome to the forum.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, because it isn't intended as such. My responses to you comments are below.

1)I disagree for the reasons listed below (and see answer 5 for specifics).

2)While I understand what you are talking about in regards to dragging and dropping gifs onto your webpage, that isn't the kind of program that Xara Xtreme is. Xara Xtreme is a graphic design program that allows your designs to be converted into websites without knowing anything about coding. I'm sure that if you take a little more time to learn more about the program you will find that most things that you want to do are still very easy to accomplish, even if they aren't accomplished in the way that you think that they should be.

For example, while you cannot drag and drop your animated gif onto a page, you can easily attach it. Simply draw a placeholder (like a rectangle) of the appropriate size and add the placeholder information that tells Xara what to replace the placeholder with; in this example, your animated gif file. I think that you might agree that while dragging and dropping a file is easy, drawing a square and picking a file from a browser in a dialog box isn't much harder. If you want more information on how to do this, just look up placeholder in the help files or on this forum.

3)What makes the templates limited? Their number or usability? I don't understand this comment. If it is their number, then you can create new ones quite easily and also there are several community created templates available for free on this forum. All you have to do is search for them. If it is their usability, then everything you can change in WS4 you can change in XX5, you just go about it in a different way.

4)It has been hinted that some of the WS4 functionality might be included in future versions.

5)As for the learning curve, I think that Xara does an excelent job over any other graphic design software (which is what it is). Try learning Adobe software in a day and see how far you get. Besides with the Xara Xone, video tutorials, and this forum, which is extremely user friendly and fast and helpful, new users have all the resourses that they need to learn how to use the software. How many of those 7 hours were spent using these resourses?
I don't understand the Xara 5 vs. Xtreme comment either. I use Xara Xtreme Pro v5. Which product do you like and which don't you?

6)They have added this ability as explained above.

I hope that this information will cause you to rethink your opinions about XX5 and spend some more time learning how to use this (IMHO) incredibly easy software and will come to enjoy working with it as much as I do.

Eric

[gwpriester]

Welcome to TalkGraphics Hawk.

The first impulse most of us have when using a new bit of software is why can't it work like the program I already use.

From considerable experience reviewing graphics for Communication Arts Magazine I think the answer is every application has its own logic and its own rhythm and flow. And like learning a foreign language, it can take some time before the rhythm and flow start to make sense.

If you do a search for wish lists on this board you will find there are hundreds of good suggestions and most of those are features found in other software products that Xtreme users would like to see in Xtreme.

My advice is before jumping on the wish list bandwagon work with Xtreme for a while and try to appreciate the way it does the magic that it does. Obviously creating websites for users with Xtreme experience is easier than jumping right in cold. But there are some really excellent sites members have created and some of the features are the best you will find in any product.

[Hawk]

Well gang, thanks for the info and comments. I've been working with Xtreme 5 now for several days.

Xara 3D is terrific and while I did figure out the draw a box and add .gif... Sorry I still think it's a shame that a user cannot drag and drop animated graphics made in Xara3D into Xtreme5 (heh sorry no one can change my mind on that one)

Guess WS4 spoiled me as they included a dozen or so various templates. (though I still made my own and changed one so much no one would recognize it)
To me that is user friendly (the ability to drag and drop)

GREAT! Xtreme 5 is a powerful program and contrary to some of your statements, definitely not for beginners.
However combining functionality of WS4 to Xtreme5 is great news.

Unfortunately I keep my abilities at the beginner/ intermediate level as I do a lot of software and hardware testing/ reviews and try not to learn too much as it defeats the purpose when I get asked to do what I do

Trust me this is not beginners software.... I do love the potential and the power of this program and will look forward to checking it out again in a couple of versions.

I still rate it in the intermediate/ advanced catagory... and would rate it very high, if that was the area of which I work/ am hired for. I actually will stop using Xtreme5 for now (WS4 is what I got hooked on for my sites) this way I can re-review Xtreme (version) X at a later time (which I couldn't do if I took the time to get proficient with it.

[Egg Bramhill]

Yes it's always best if a reviewer doesn't really understand the software he's reviewing :-}

[RickSchultz]

Hawk, I agree AND disagree about your statement that Xara Xtreme is not for beginners, and I should know - I'm one.

I'm an accountant. Numbers, Excel - these things I know. I failed all my art classes (in primary school); have avoided art of any sort ever since. I can't draw a straight line. When it comes to graphic design, yup, colour me newbie.

And I can't stop raving about Xara FOR NEWBIES! I tell all my friends about it when they ask who did my website - just me & Xara. Not that it's a particularly great website, cuz it isn't. But for me to design & build a website that functions as a "professional" website is simply jaw dropping.

Now, I did have to work for it. I had to watch the excellent tutorials (some more than once); I had to change the way I wanted the tool to work but, then, there's always a learning curve. Thing is, if Xara was built ONLY for beginners, it wouldn't be able to do the very cool things it does, because the beginner's mind-set isn't anywhere near capable of comprehending the vast needs an intermediate or advanced user has. Software built SOLELY for the newbie will not allow the developer to advance and become expert.

I would say Xara is the best example I've seen of very expert software made available to the beginner. Rather than dumbing down the product, they've done an amazing job of simplifying it enough for a beginner to have early success, then for that beginner to progress and develop capabilities.

The other fantastic thing about Xara is the community. People put a lot of thought and effort into this community, and that's way more important even than the software, because if I can't figure out how to do something with Xara, I can find people on line who can, and are willing to share with beginners like me.

So, Hawk, I'd say you're part right - Xara isn't software explicitly FOR beginners; it's for people who want to have a full toolset to design great graphics and, if they are beginners, there are all the tools available to learn how to use that great toolset. But please, don't scare off the beginners - I would have HATED missing out on a great product because of a reviewer telling me it was over my head.

[jinker]

Rick

I'm interested in seeing what you achieved with your software. For what it's worth I'm not finding it very beginner friendly either. And, like you I was also useless with Art, Design and couldn't draw a straight line to save my life.
I can however, build computers with my eyes closed, figure out faults in my sleep and design websites using Dreawmeaver which took me several years to crack....but, that's another story!

Over to you...

Jinker

[covoxer]

So, Jinker, from your personal experience, what is more beginner friendly: DreamWeaver or WebDesigner?