Text base line - virtually not present

[Sponsi]

When I try to center some words into a horizontal line, there is no way to make it really precisely centered. The text has its baseline with the bottom (or top) of the upmost or bottommost character (e.g. "k" has a tail up and "y" has a tail bottom). When trying to center, e.g.:

text alignment

and every word here being a separate object, you will center:
"this" not according to the real base line (which is at the bottom of "a", "l", "i", "n", "m", "e", "n", "t" but taking the scale from the top of "l" and "i" all the way to the bottom of "g" so we end up with "text" being not really in the middle but slightly below.

It's a real fault that there is no recognition for real base line so I think it should be added. Maybe with a plugin or in Xareg?

Here is what I mean:

[MEB]

Hi Sponsi,
Usually you should only use one text object and make all changes you need "inside it". Each text object has it´s own baseline, and if you add/remove words or more sentences (in the same text object), the baseline is always respected.

Seems you are using more than one text object to compose your text, and that´s the reason you are getting different baselines. Each word is respecting the baseline corresponding to the text object it belongs.

If you really have to/want to use more than one text object, the better way to align them all is using a guideline. All the words that don´t exceed the x-height (a,m,c etc) will snap easely to the guideline, the others with ascenders (d,l,t etc) or descenders (g,p etc) must be aligned manually using the guide as a visual reference.

But as i said earlier you should be able to solve any situation with just one text object. Make sure you have the text tool selected and clicked precisely over the text you want to edit, otherwise you may unintentionally be creating a new text object instead of editing the existing one.

[Soquili]

Text base line alignment and Object alignment are not the same topic.

Using the Object alignment dialog treats text as an object and considers the descenders and ascenders as the bottom and top extents of the object.

[amoore]

You're correct that text baseline alignment and object alignment are two different things. And yes, when Xtreme aligns a text object via object alignment tools, it treats the TO as an object, not as text.

That's to be expected. First and foremost, Xtreme is a graphics tool, not a text tool. Although it has text formatting functions that are similar to DTP functions, it still operates from an object standpoint. (They are called 'text objects', after all. ).

There are times when it would be nice if Xtreme aligned a text object with a shape using the baseline of the text as the determinant for the text object. (Centering in flow chart boxes and web buttons, for example.) But how is Xtreme supposed to know exactly what you want to do with the text object in a given instance? Are you vertically aligning adjacent text objects on similar shapes, where one TO has one line of text and the other has two? Supppose you're using less than 100% leading in the multi-line TO? Or a different font?

What happens when you need to use the extents of the ascenders and descenders as the determinants, not the baseline?

Just to complicate matters further, there are typefaces in which some letters that you think would rest on the baseline are actually positioned slightly above or below it. So when you vertically align your text element, it may not look quite the way you expect even though it's technically correct.

Sometimes, you're just better off doing it yourself.

[Zupdude]

Sponsi: I may not be experienced enough with XE to give you the very best solution for your problem, but I can give you a couple of work-a-rounds that I've employed...

The first is the simplest (When it can be employed [which happens to work with your example in 'Arial']): Align them to the 'Top'.

Another 'trick' is to duplicate the first word, align the duplicate with the original, select the duplicate with the text tool and type the word(s) you want... they're sure to be aligned that way. Be sure to press the 'ctrl' key when you move the new word to its new location, or move the two words together.


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There are a couple of other techniques I use when the words in question have been converted to objects [if that's what they're called in XE]. I'd be happy to share them with you but to use them with 'text' would be like going around your fingers to get to your thumb.

[Sponsi]

Please don't discuss this : )

Miguel B. believe me - I've tried a lot of different things.. and it's a fact: Xara doesn't have it, you simply can't make it work like it should. You can make tricks like Zupdude wrote (and I do them) but it just isn't what I expect...

Guys, it's not a question of how to do it.. it's a questions of "it isn't there but it should be"... and let's not start discussions like "Xara is only... it doesn't have it then" - that's right. It doesn't have it, that's why I wrote this thread. If we start explaining absence of features with "it's only Xara, not Corel/Photoshop" Xara will take only small steps in directions not all of us entirely agree with (see my other posts ; )

Zupdude I know, I know.. but you must agree it's not very professional..

If you have Corel, you'll know what I mean - you have "center with the base line" feature and it's what I need in Xara...

[Soquili]

...it's a fact: Xara doesn't have it, you simply can't make it work like it should.

Sponsi it works exactly as it should according to the parameters set forth by the Xara development team.

I'm sure you feel a need for the feature and I'm also sure it is most likely somewhere on the "wish list" maintained by Charles Moir. When or IF it is ever included in Xtreme it will probably make you and others very happy.

I have Corel Draw and Illustrator. Many of the features in those programs seem to be "a must have" for many people. When using Xtreme I do not miss any of those features. I use the tools built within Xtreme to my advantage and don't even consider how it is done as a work around. It is just the way it is currently done in Xtreme.

I know I'm an archaic dinosaur but I actually enjoy having to think through how to accomplish something that isn't built into a program.

At my age, it helps keep Altzheimer's away.

[Zupdude]

I know I'm an archaic dinosaur but I actually enjoy having to think through how to accomplish something that isn't built into a program.

I know what you mean... the same feeling you get when you finish a sudoku puzzle. The thing is that (for many of us) we just have to get the job done. There's enough 'brainy' pleasure to be found in designing the work at hand... Puzzles are for after work.

[Soquili]

When you know the program it isn't a puzzle but a memory exercise.

For after work I prefer a good crossword rather than sudoku. Crosswords require more memory and etymology skills where sudoku is simple arithmetic in multiple dimensions.

[amoore]

The thing is that (for many of us) we just have to get the job done. There's enough 'brainy' pleasure to be found in designing the work at hand... Puzzles are for after work.

Sadly, "just getting the job done" and sticking to the more pleasurable aspects such as designing often leaves us lacking in the fundamentals department. Really knowing your tools, including — perhaps especially — what they don't do and how to work around it, can support your design work more than you realize.

Lest you think I'm speaking as a "lady of leisure", I work in an environment in which speed is usually a top priority.