Does "Ross Macintosh" have a soul?

[morphonius_821]

There's no clear and common definition of course. That's why I propose to look at commonly accepted facts about it:

1. It is definitely non material.
2. It is individual for every human being.
3. All psychological activity is a function of the soul.

These three facts are common for most uses of this word.
Such a thing definitely exists even if someone may be reluctant to call it a "soul".
All mythical capabilities of this thing are parts of the religion and beliefs.
But it's existence is evident.
Everything that is non material exists beyond time and space. As to perfection.... this term is even less definitive than the soul.

I would not agree that everything non material is beyond time and space...
The way i understand it (theory I have read with respect to this) is that there are dimensions associated with "octaves" of "matter" immediately neighboring this one (that we associate with atomic matter) which correspond to the processes of our emotional and mental existences which are progressively less bound by time and space but that none the less have limited (perhaps negligible by our standards) temporal and spacial qualities and each of these realms could be thought of as dimensions with a more rarefied order of "matter" then this one...
But which do occupy the same "space" to a certain degree.
I.e like a radio wave.... it sure does exist in space but it does not obey the same "rules" as a solid projectile and will more loosely interact with solid objects in that it will pass through most things but will not be totally unaffected by this.

And to think about it: space and time are what separates one object/event from another and if these did not exist at all (on any level/realm) then there would be no form possible for any individual "objects" or interacting processes to exist.
Like a singularity...
This is what I mean by perfect...in that at a soul level (the highest of the high) everything is one,
And everything that has, will or could possibly happen or exist in any possible circumstance simply is...i.e infinite potential...the formless essence of everything,... everything that is infinitely possible is all contained in one....

like a blackhole outside of which nothing exists.

So perfection becomes a way to describe such a situation as there is no other state for such a thing but unity as there is nothing outside of it at this level...
its quite an abstract concept really...i don't know if i have my head totally wrapped around it...

- - - - -
Am i boring you?............................ Shit sorry...
There's a perfectly log-ic-al reason and you needn't worry.
My priest installed a soulware patch,
in the right port? I instructed...

Now there's a firmware glitch and I'm serially busted...

So I scolded him... "It's My soul and your entrusted!"
But he just winked at me and left my hard drive rusted.
I said "now see here" and it was then he interjected,
"This is the body of Christ, and your system is infected!"

Right about then it was his Control I alt Delete,
shut the process down and hoofed to the street.
Not daring to look back running for the door,
I made it just in time to do a system restore...

[remi]

It's obvious, that you have too much free time on your hands...

[handrawn]

"when the whole becomes divided, then the parts need names;
if i have even just a little sense I will stick to the main path and my only fear will be in straying from it
sticking to the main path is easy, but the mind is easily distracted..."

[covoxer]

I would not agree that everything non material is beyond time and space...

You are wrong. As long as we are talking about default definition of space and time (both philosophical and physical), it is only a function of matter. Non-material things do not have these parameters. For example, take any informational object, let's say Xara Xtreme and locate it in space. How long is it? 10 inches or 20'000 miles? What's it volume? These are not applicable. Same stands for time. Matter changes with time but information don't. Thus, information does not exists in physical space or time.
Materialists decline existence of anything non material so they define information as a function of matter. But shifting a point of relevance a bit we can say that the matter is a function of information. None can be proven by definition.
So, what we have is the fact that information requires material medium to interact with human senses (which are part of the material body), and as such, we can only transfer information on the material storage or carrier. And this medium, being material, exists in space and time.
But information as a phenomenon does not rely on the medium - we can ignore medium used, the same information can exist on different mediums.
That's why the law of conservation of mass/matter is not applicable to information and you can copy it freely as much as you want.

[morphonius_821]

You are wrong. As long as we are talking about default definition of space and time (both philosophical and physical), it is only a function of matter. Non-material things do not have these parameters.

I realize that the mind likes to work in absolutes:
i.e. "simply something is material or it is not....."

However the universe does not neatly divide along the lines of:
1)that which you can perceive and
2)that which you can not,
each side having distinct properties commensurate with an arbitrary observation.
(Insofar as this distinction is only in the mind of the observer... as dictated by their particular sensory capabilities.)

Because you can not see something does not mean it is immaterial in any sense other than one of arbitrary definition.
And things are not rendered incapable of any parameters whatever simply because you have failed to observe them.

And with reference to matters of spirit I'm obviously not simply talking about a definition of matter limited and framed by the current extent of our scientific knowledge...
But in a broader sense that includes other more rarefied types of matter on as yet scientifically uncharted dimensions.

[covoxer]

I guess I'm not talking about your definition of matter...

It's not mine, it's scientific.
But if you mean something else, then you can be right. But then by your definition of the matter, soul may be no longer non-material.

[morphonius_821]

It's not mine, it's scientific.
But if you mean something else, then you can be right. But then by your definition of the matter, soul may be no longer non-material.

I have an answer for that too
I would say as you progress "upwards" (up the tree of dimensions whose head is the divine) that with each level the grade of "matter" which composes each dimension in turn is less course, more refined and in a sphere which is less affected or confined by space and time as we know it...

i.e when i say less course obviously this is an understatement as for a whole new dimension of matter to co-exist (on a higher level) interwoven with this one but on the whole for the most part be totally separate and invisible.... each step in "density" (new dimensional octave) would be a massive step...
and obviously I'm not talking just one addition dimension but many.

IE And that with each step up the influence of space and time effects gets gradually less.
And that at the dimensional level where these things are completely absent then this is were the soul resides....
But that there are several levels in between...(of which science knows little or nothing.) which in some key ways correlate to various faculties of human existence...(i.e. our emotions, imaginings and passions- our metal powers,,, ETC...)

P.S. "Cool" Thanks....

[kinetica]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the result of watching too many episodes of Star Trek.

[morphonius_821]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the result of watching too many episodes of Star Trek.

Now, now i never said i was a Trekkie

But i would say that the divide between science and religion is one only spawned by the gaping holes in our own understanding of the universe.

The universe does not adhere to our laws... our laws clumsily attempt to model small bite size pieces of the truth.

And there are unseen machinations to everything we observe...
unseen simply because we can not observe them with current technology....

The first guy to suggest that illness was often caused by organisms too small to be seen was "laughed off the stage".
Before then there was probably a million and one theories and many thought they had been frowned on by god when they got sick.
Theres that word again...the one that is a holding tank for everything unknown.

But hey because everybody thought he was wrong and his idea absurd changes nothing.
We just had to wait until an instrument was created that could show this.

The fact is that currently the only instrument capable of examining the super physical realms is the human mind/soul itself and the training required to hone ones faculties sufficiently to achieve such feats is beyond the attention span of most....
The amount of work required mentally would probably equate to the amount of physical training required to be in olympic gold medal contention.
But don't let that stop you start your training now LOL http://www.scribd.com/doc/14044787/Concentration-Mouni-Sadhu-eBook-the-Occult-Training-Manual

That does not mean that "Psychotronic hardware" will not be one day invented.... ie machinery that handles energies which are of the next dimensional octave (ie "atoms" of emotional and metal "matter")...Ie perhaps to image the "astral plane" (to borrow a term) and videotape the souls of the dead.

The fact is I think is that there are extra dimensions that underpin our reality and also when discovered and mapped out in detail will explain many things and also shine light down on some of life's biggest mysteries.

It is a big mistake for scientists to feel that they ALMOST have all the answers...and all they need is a few missing links to neatly sew their loose ends together and truly crown themselves as the high priests of reality.
many have a way too inflated sense of self importance and arrogantly presume they know more than they do....they know really relatively little compared to all there is to know and probably never will discover more than a small percentage of what is possible to be known.

P.S. that why i also laugh when boffins will scoff at UFO's for example because it is IMPOSSIBLE to travel faster than light...
not that i want to argue that they positively exist (i have no idea)...but just taking the thing on for arguments sake no-body said they would have to travel in out spatial dimensions (one hypothesis) an also gravity bends space... so it may be theoretically possible to bend your destination on top of you....(i think i just said the same thing...LOL)....

P.P.S That creaking sound you can hear is the lid being pried open from another can of worms......

[covoxer]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the result of watching too many episodes of Star Trek.

We, Vulcans don't watch Star Trek. It is not logical, it lacks consistency and overally is not informative.