Web Designer versus Xtreme Pro

**steve.ledger** · 11 March 2009, 07:42 AM

Here we go again, the same old broken record spinning up again

It should be the case though.

That comes across so very luddite and blinkered, no-one can take seriously a non-objective point of view.

Alexander if Xara Web Designer offends you because it's putting power in the hands of those who do not know HTML, then all I can say is 'Get over it"..

We all respect your right to your preferred methods and opinion and no-one is going out there way to force anyone to adopt a graphical approach to web design if they don't wish to. Any solution is the 'real solution' if the tool is understood and used as intended.
It's just an option for anyone who wants to take it.
Choice is good right?

So please try not to force your way of thinking onto others with your bullish comments, if you can't accept WD and see it as blasphemy, then please choose another subject to discuss at TG which we can happily join in with and remain friends. OK?

@卡丁人
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**haakoo** · 11 March 2009, 07:57 AM

Don't hope I'm considered a spinning record
But use the tools you're provided with.
With some effort they are complementary.

Hans

**slavelle** · 18 March 2009, 06:13 PM

Just wanted to toss in my $.02 on the matter as a former programmer, an IT Consultant, and a web designer/coder...

I like creating very clean sites from html and css. I don't use tables for my structure. I keep all the styling seperated from the content when possible. I try to avoid excessive script, try to keep my code huiman-readable, and even rank fairly well for certain things because my sites are coded to be search engine friendly as well.

So what is the problem?

Well, I can get great results but I'm always playing with browser compatibility to get the page to look the same across multiple apps. Fine...but sometimes, you can't even get there and you have to accept a compromise that keeps the design together enough in all the broswers to be ok.

But it can take some time to get these things right - to demo them for a client - to make changes on the fly and not have to diddle with CSS pixels, div heights, padding, margins, or any of the other tedious stuff that comes with hand coding.

My job as an IT consultant is to find the best tools for each job, whether those tools are to be used by the client or by me. There is a place in my world for sites that a quicker and easier to get together, which allows me to more easily fit into tighter budgets. If I don't need dynamic content or certain other DB interactions, I don't use a CMS. If I don't need some of the things that html/css allow me to do and Xara will fit the bill, then I'll use Xara.

This is a tool, folks. We all own lots of them. Getting the best bang for the buck in our toolbox and being able to size jobs properly according to a CLIENT'S needs is my goal. And in a lot of cases, if I can justify using XWD instead of hand-coding (no matter how a sick techie part of me might sometimes feel about it), then I'm going to use it. The speed and flexibility along with the ability to focus on what I want the page to look like rather than how to fiddle and hack it into place is going to be worth a bunch of billable time and hopefully a better lead generator as the guy who can "pull off really different designs and has them done quickly". This is what a lot of the small local businesses here are looking for - not 6 month timelines and $10,000 websites.

Hope that adds something!

**pauland** · 18 March 2009, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by slavelle

This is a tool, folks.

You were doing so well up until this point. 90% of forum users, when asked, would describe Xara as a religion.. ;-)

Good post.

**Soquili** · 18 March 2009, 06:36 PM

Paul, not a religion; an addiction.

**Ross Macintosh** · 18 March 2009, 10:07 PM

Yes, a tool.

I've been watching in amazement how John (Covoxer) has been answering user inquiries regarding adding functionality, with various javascript snippits of code. It is clear to me not only his impressive coding skills but also that Xara-WD can be a very powerful tool in the hands of an expert...

It seems there is a tendency for experienced professional web-coders to dismiss Xara-WD without ever really exploring the flexibility in it provides. Clearly it is a useful tool for those of us with no aptitude for coding but, as Covoxer has shown, it can also be a platform that advanced coders can also use.

I think that in time we will see more skilled web-coders discover the flexibility & benefits Xara-WD offers and get on-board. We will likely continue to see some folks poo-poo the program as not "professional" enough. (Maybe Xara need a $1239 version for those folks -- identical in every way except the price

). Ultimately "to each his own". Those of us who like the tool can enjoy using it and those who think there's something better for them can dismiss us.

Regards, Ross

**-=Drifter=-** · 18 March 2009, 10:09 PM

Well said, Ross. I couldn't agree more.

**camelot217** · 19 March 2009, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ross Macintosh

Yes, a tool.

I've been watching in amazement how John (Covoxer) has been answering user inquiries regarding adding functionality, with various javascript snippits of code. It is clear to me not only his impressive coding skills but also that Xara-WD can be a very powerful tool in the hands of an expert...

Regards, Ross

I have to agree 100% with this. I own a lot of software ranging from $5000 plus to this $49 gem ($29). No other company has a person so helpful like John. Every time I post something related to coding...a reply is back from John in minutes. Absolutely amazing!. This attention and willingness to help from the developers is the main reason I recommend Xara products to others.
Also a big thank to many others on this list for being so helpful.

**pauland** · 11 March 2009, 08:01 AM

There's a place for hardcore html coders and for html websites generated by software (which is what XWD does). There used to be similar arguments about not using assembly language for programming, but it's used only in specialist situations now.

I think hardcore html coders should just ignore XWD and chuckle to themselves at the way it works. In the meantime XWD users can smile that they aren't wasting their life worrying too much about HTML.

**covoxer** · 11 March 2009, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by pauland

There's a place for hardcore html coders and for html websites generated by software (which is what XWD does). There used to be similar arguments about not using assembly language for programming, but it's used only in specialist situations now.

Exactly. Actually, the analogy to the high/low level programming languages here is very strong indeed.

I think hardcore html coders should just ignore XWD and chuckle to themselves at the way it works. In the meantime XWD users can smile that they aren't wasting their life worrying too much about HTML.

Well, the programming rivalry ended with time, so now even assembly programmers use high level languages but unlike less experienced programmers they can optimise the code when needed using their knowledge. We have some ways for exapansion and use of the advanced html knowledge in WD as well, so, perhaps one day, some other html coders except me, could try and help less experienced users with code tweaks.