Feature Request: LivePaint / Paint Bucket tool

[remi]

It wouldn´t be better if the tool was vector based instead of pixel based?
The inkscape description states that the selected area is based on an image rendering of the current work that is then traced by potrace. Why not use boolean operations instead to determine the selected area? It would be much more precise clean and sharp. (althought in the inkscape case the tracing engine is absolutely great)

Hi Miguel,

I think, working with vectors is the technique of Adobe Illustrator's LivePaint tool. But the approach of the Inkscape team is much more flexible, because of the following reasons:

1. It sounds to me, that Inkscape's planned "Paint Bucket tool" is able to handle (simple or more complex) vector objects and also (scanned or imported) bitmaps to find pixels of similiar values.
   Instead of searching only for vector objects, the tool does a fast render of the nearest area and uses well known bitmap-based algorithms for the further search for bounds.
   The problem is, that the colours of the underlying pixels are more important for selecting areas, instead of the real coordinates of the underlying shapes. The vector shapes in your Xara Xtreme drawing could be simple shapes but with complex fills/transparencies, so that the approach to following only the vector form isn't flexible enough.
   
2. A lot of users knows the tools of bitmap editors, but don't know much about vector tools. From time to time we all see questions from beginners here, who asks for a "Magic Wand Tool" within Xara Xtreme. OK, we all are able to explain the differences between bitmap editors and vector editors and why there is nothing like a "Magic Wand Tool" in a vector graphics editor. But if we think about it, we have to accept the fact, that the "bitmap way" (using a simple tool to find similar pixels and places a selection around) is more intuitive than the "vector way" (creating new shapes by hand over a imported bitmap).
   
3. This tool offers an easy way to trace a bitmap "by hand". All these approachs with monolithic Bitmap tracers are not satisfying in my eyes. Yes, we can study all the possibilites of Xara Xtreme's Bitmap Tracer or Potrace or Illustrator's LiveTrace, but in the end, the results are often shapes with too much point handles. We all know the pain, to work with these terrible shapes.
   On the one hand, it seems that's not possible to develop a really clever Bitmap Tracer (who would trace images the way, we are able to do by hand), but then this doesn't mean, that's not possible to develop a clever "Bitmap Tracing Assistant Tool". These "Paint Bucket tool" is one step in the right direction: Tracing a bitmap step by step together with little instructions by the user. With such a tool we should be able to trace a scanned or imported bitmap within a minute or two.

Remi

[handrawn]

Remi

I am eagerly awaiting the inkscape 0.46 release.
I totally agree with rpc9943, it will make cartooning a lot easier - in fact, for my normal cartoon work purposes it may [sadly] cut xara out of the loop altogether, but it depends on how well it is implemented.

I can see a senario whereby my black pencil drawings are scanned in to photoshop [which removes red[blue] layout pencil by splitting channels]

then inkscape vectors them [which 'inks' them too]
AND then colors them
Job done.

And as getting vectors from xara to inkscape can be a pain - what original vector drawing I have to do for these jobs will quite likely be done in inkscape also.

Not just for cartoons either thinking about it.....

[Albacore]

I use Live Paint tools in AI fairly fequently and like the PS style colour fill proposed by inkscape but like other people have mentioned it would be better if the fill would be vector and not bitmapped. Yes this would be a good tool to used in Xara but my request would be for a vector style fill as in AI.

Everyone are making requests at the moment for better and different tools at the moment. My simple request would be to ask the Xara removes all the small bugs that have been reported for years and to sort out the programme that we have got especially in the brushes area. I have no interest on how the brushes are rendered and how it is technically done I just wish that I had brushes in Xara as I have in AI.

[handrawn]

Everyone are making requests at the moment for better and different tools at the moment. My simple request would be to ask the Xara removes all the small bugs that have been reported for years and to sort out the programme that we have got especially in the brushes area. I have no interest on how the brushes are rendered and how it is technically done I just wish that I had brushes in Xara as I have in AI.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I think Albacore makes a very good point here.
I would like a feature such as live paint in xara all else being equal, but to be honest, since I have other programs that do this well - with the addition of the proposed inkscape release, its not actually necessary - getting the bugs and the brushes, especially the brushes, sorted out in xara is a definitely a higher priority.

[Nostaw]

Albacore, I'm with you. The world doesn't stop, software is evolving, new tools are created every day. I think before Xara implements new features, old bugs should be fixed and then go from there.

[remi]

... in fact, for my normal cartoon work purposes it may [sadly] cut xara out of the loop altogether, but it depends on how well it is implemented.

Before all users think, Inkscape would be already an equivalent replacement for Xara Xtreme, think twice, because sometimes it seems to me, that the Inkscape community loves to do great marketing and all people are happy, but don't looks behind the curtain. Remember: all these features of Inkscape are planned features. The slow rendering issues are "addressed", but not solved. Impressive Speed improvements are "expected", but the Cairo library is currently only used in Inkscape's outline mode and nobody knows, if the Cairo library is as fast as Xara Xtreme's one.

Personally, I'm really thankful for Carl Worth's try to break the "xaralx is non-free software" deadlock in the OpenSource project of Xara Xtreme for Linux. That was a great idea. But I also learned from the things, Carl said in the developer list, that Cairo looses most hardware acceleration because of the necessary to draw into an off-screen bitmap and Carl said clear, that this "does mean you just get cairo's (not too impressive) software doing all the rendering".

In a email from February, Carl (one of the main developer of Cairo) wrote:
"But the design goal of cairo is actually to provide sufficient
primitives for anything a 2D application might want to draw, (and in
particular if there's a possibility for graphics hardware to
accelerate it).

For gradients, it was quite obvious that linear and radial gradients
would be required since they are so common. Beyond that, what I've
always wanted to add to cairo is a single "mesh gradient" of same type
that would be sufficiently general for applications to implement any
desired gradient at all.

But, yeah, we don't have anything like that implemented yet."

I think before Xara implements new features, old bugs should be fixed and then go from there.

I don't think so. You're right, that error fixing is important, but that's usual business for a software company.

My point with this feature request for Xara Xtreme is, that I would love to see, that Xara's developers are able to keep pace with the new features of competition products. And if there is a (really easy) way available, to develop a facility for users of vector editors, why should Xara not be able to implement this within a short time?

Remi

[toymaker1]

I use Live Paint tools in AI fairly fequently and like the PS style colour fill proposed by inkscape but like other people have mentioned it would be better if the fill would be vector and not bitmapped. Yes this would be a good tool to used in Xara but my request would be for a vector style fill as in AI.

Everyone are making requests at the moment for better and different tools at the moment. My simple request would be to ask the Xara removes all the small bugs that have been reported for years and to sort out the programme that we have got especially in the brushes area. I have no interest on how the brushes are rendered and how it is technically done I just wish that I had brushes in Xara as I have in AI.

I agree with you.
I am just trying out Xara Designer Pro 6, and I am very disapointed it does not seem to have a live paint bucket tool as in Illustrator, nor a Smartfill tool as in CorelDraw.
That is how I color images all the time.

Regards.

[mwenz]

As is appropriate for Easter, a thread brought back from the dead <g>...

Then again, one can simply drag and drop a color from a pallete or gallery. With the color picker open, one can select another object and drag its color onto other objects. Or select an object, copy and choose to paste attributes.

I come from a CD, AI and PS background. While the methods in XDP6 are different, at the end of the day I personally find them equally as quick and or as easy.

Take care, Mike

[handrawn]

Hi Mike

as I recall the main point [for me anyway] about the inkscape and the illustrator fill methods discussed here is that the vector shapes do not have to be closed - oh and the inkscape fill tool will fill areas in bitmaps as well as vectors........

[mwenz]

Ah, I've seen a thread or two about open paths and fills. Thanks for clarifying--I couldn't bring myself to read the whole thing...

Another application I use (mainly for photo editing) is PhotoLine. It too can fill open paths (it does both image and vector stuff).

Take care, Mike