Web Designer versus Xtreme Pro

[instinctive.de]

Alexander if Xara Web Designer offends you because it's putting power in the hands of those who do not know HTML, then all I can say is 'Get over it"..
[...]
So please try not to force your way of thinking onto others with your bullish comments, if you can't accept WD and see it as blasphemy, then please choose another subject to discuss at TG which we can happily join in with and remain friends. OK?

Sheesh, relax! You have totally misunderstood me.

The issue is more complex: Web development consists of (at least) two fundamentally different tasks: 1) *Graphics design* (layout, navbar design, button design, choice of fonts/sizes etc.). That can be handled by a graphics artist, and using a tool like Xtreme to make a *purely graphical* (no HTML, no CSS) *mockup.

Then there's 2) *Implementation*: Which is implement a layout in HTML/CSS that encapsulates the previously (graphically) drafted layout and design, with possibly added functionality.

Xara WD (and to a degree Xtreme) mix these two concepts. I think that these two concepts should stay seperate. But I guess me (with my 29 years) is pretty oldschool. I also think that those "combo devices" (scanner, fax, copier, printer, toaster, vacuum all in one) are just as bad a development, because they do 6 things with mediocre results, instead of doing one thing *well*.

Excuse me if I'm not politically correct (tm), but I'll keep stating opinions

[covoxer]

I also think that those "combo devices" (scanner, fax, copier, printer, toaster, vacuum all in one) are just as bad a development, because they do 6 things with mediocre results, instead of doing one thing *well*.

Well, then stop using that personal computer. It mixes much more funcions and was invented with unlimited multifunctionality in mind.

[instinctive.de]

Well, then stop using that personal computer. It mixes much more funcions and was invented with unlimited multifunctionality in mind.

I use a notebook in my car for playing music. Guess what, it frequently reboots with a "New updates need to be installed now" in the middle of a cool song, or sometimes crashes when waking up from suspend

So yes, I'm ignoring my own suggestions there... however, it is proof that a single-purpose MP3 player is better than using a multifunction PC as one

But well, you can ignore me now

[covoxer]

I use a notebook in my car for playing music. Guess what, it frequently reboots with a "New updates need to be installed now" in the middle of a cool song, or sometimes crashes when waking up from suspend
So yes, I'm ignoring my own suggestions there... however, it is proof that a single-purpose MP3 player is better than using a multifunction PC as one

Indeed.

[haakoo]

What is the definition of web-design anyhow?

A website on which are placed the personal or nonprofit or commercial interests of its owner.
They differ in every each case(or we could all be using joomla or the likes)

A sculptor needs a portfolio-make a great graphics site(xwd)
A school needs a site which handles rosters and personal info(use php/asp based website with database like joomla)
A consultant needs more forms so xwd(lacks forms) is not that suitable nor is joomla(to heavy)

So choose what's needed in every single case.
Like stated before think complementary

Hans

[pauland]

I agree with Alexander. Having six separate specialist devices is preferable to a multi-function printer scanner and having a designer mockup your web pages and then have them hand-translated to HTML by a HTML specialist is definitely the route of choice.

Sadly many of us don't have room to accommodate all this stuff, or people, or the budget they require, so a compromise is in order. XWD is that compromise. I would agree that XWD does not make a good multifunction printer/scanner.

[Spinny]

I would agree that XWD does not make a good multifunction printer/scanner.

And from what I've seen thus far it makes a lousy cup of coffee.

[instinctive.de]

Maybe to cool down this entire discussion, I should state that I accept that there's a market for something like XWD, else it wouldn't exist.

My conclusion to get everyone happy: I will keep doing graphics design and site programming entirely seperate for my and my clients' projects, and I would be happy if Xtreme dropped the entire web site creation part and instead focused on being a does-one-thing-great package. It's already very good in graphics, and if all energy were focused on that, it would become even more extraordinary.

It seems that Xara is moving that way by introducing the seperate WD application, and that's a good thing.

[Spinny]

If I may...

Web development consists of (at least) two fundamentally different tasks: 1) *Graphics design* ... 2) *Implementation*

I believe that there are times when #2 simply does not matter. If the code itself is W3C compliant, and search engine friendly, and results in the desired display rendered to the user, then in those cases implementation is not relevant. I understand there are instances where that is not the case, where the structure of the code matters for some reason or another, but I expect that those cases are the exception, not the rule, when you look at the whole massive monster that is the World Wide Web.

For the people where that structure matters, WD is not the tool to use. For everyone else, it is designed by its creators to become the go-to solution of choice (or so they hope).

I also think that those "combo devices" (scanner, fax, copier, printer, toaster, vacuum all in one) are just as bad a development, because they do 6 things with mediocre results, instead of doing one thing *well*.

I completely agree with you. I still refuse to put music files on my Blackberry: I have an iPod for that.