No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

[handrawn]

The harder way might be to perform a complete backup.

I have pointed out to Xara that the storing of the Cache in %LocalAppDat% is somewhat contentious as you have the joy of losing it on top of the issue around versioning if a machine dies.

I have a daily backup that will capture as an image [clone] all of C: - I think, though i have never yet had to test it, that would facilitate extraction from LocalAppData - certainly that cloned image can be mounted on any windows computer, [that has the backup software installed], as a full virtual drive, and data can be accessed and extracted

EDIT:- is there and opens in the program spot check on mounted backup image:



may have to rebuild the catalog if actually restoring ?

As far as the program goes, it usually wants to check for reactivation after an image restore - if I am doing this deliberately I will deactivate the xara program before making the image just to be safe, but I have not yet had to test this outside of an active update service period...

[iamtheblues]

I am not going to add to this thread full of tales of woe and worries about future updates and future-proofing, but doesn't this and all the other threads along similar lines suggest to anyone of sane mind that this is proof of poor decision making by MagiXara? If it were not for Talkgraphics.com and the likes of Acorn and Handrawn, all users of Xara would probably be shouting into a void. It is all very well making provisions for impending disaster, but I see nothing new in the 'flagship' product in recent years to worry about any loss that might cause one to revert to an earlier version.

The version that anyone has installed on their hard drive is probably the one that performs the job that is intended. Backing up the .exe file to an external drive or two is probably all that is required. If one asks oneself the question, 'What will I lose as a result of having to reinstall an earlier version from the last year or two?' the answer will be 'not very much' in all honesty. Stumping up hard-earned dosh for very little return doesn't seem like a fair return, unless, like Acorn you want to be current in order to pose pertinent questions to MagiXara.

I think the answer is to just carry on as if nothing has happened - it is a state of affairs that has been on-going for a few years now in any case.

[handrawn]

if, like you and me bob, all you use the program for is to create graphics then what you say is true enough; i don't use the OCC, hardly ever design templates, but there are creators who do, who need this asset downloaded at the very least

Xara have nailed their colours very firmly to the online/cloud mast - it is indicative of who they see their core market/customers as: websites and print

one of these days, i see it comming, i will migrate my xara work entirely over to affinity; as it is, all my DTP is there, and most of my xara work now is legacy - and once again, the affinity version upgrade from ver 7 to ver 8 is completely free and unrestricted for existing customers

it is clear who the xara/magix model benefits [most] and that is them; they as good as said that their cash-flow would improve as a result and the commercial side of me hopes for their sake that it did - just as it hopes online/cloud never becomes a millstone round their [or anyone elses] neck in a crisis, international or otherwise.... but using it day to day [other than for secondary/offsite backup] is not the way I like to work.. call it prudence... call it experience borne of a pre-millennium world that got used to not taking such things for granted

[samrc]

Though I called it a new question, it still dealt with backing up, reinstall of the program & content so I didn't really think it should have it's own thread.

Truly had I realized how the Xara product had changed its model,
I wouldn't have purchased this version 16. I would have stayed with 11 that is a full and complete software, with CD...

But thanks to this forum I am ready for a reinstall, whole and safe.
I have my 16.0 install exe.
And the Content installer provided fonts/fills and Panoramic Studio exe files
And the captured Update install exe
And I just copied the folders for cache for designs and fonts.
And a Text file with notes re where to put things & other notes from the 2 threads

I wont do a mirror, or a virtual machine to protect my current install. Years ago, I probably would have.

Yes, I am a dinosaur. I want to use what I purchase, as I see fit, when and where I see fit.
I don't want to upgrade every year. I don't do that on any of my equipment and software.
(Even my refrigerator was purchased in 1980! Doesn't look pretty but still works )

but using it day to day [other than for secondary/offsite backup] is not the way I like to work.. call it prudence... call it experience borne of a pre-millennium world that got used to not taking such things for granted

Well put.
Since I am often in areas without internet access, online services are not my best option.
- Some of my customers are in rural areas with no access to internet. They use computers offline, go to town to have lunch and go online for a while.
- Some of my customers pay for "high speed" and are promised to get "up to" 3MBps speeds. Usually receive less than 1MBps.
Downloading and accessing online content on that is miserable. Streaming is impossible.

one of these days, i see it comming, i will migrate my xara work entirely over to affinity;

I have not heard of this. Maybe I need to know more?

So thanks folks for your guidance and making me feel so much better about my v16 purchase.

[handrawn]

Affinity have three programs - Designer [vector] Photo [raster] and Publisher [dtp] - they started out on mac to give competiton to Adobe, by offering subscription free programs for Graphic Design and Illustration and then Publishing; all three are also available for Windows

The Ui will take some getting used to after Xara, especially if you are not familiar with Photoshop/Illustrator/In-design - they do not do website generation - they are not a direct replacement, but for generating graphics i find them on balance just as good; Photo has a wider range of bitmap specific fuctions and tools which you would expect from an adobe competitior [which xara never officially claimed to be afaik]

they are an offshoot of Serif and you will find them at https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/ [and not affinity.com who are someone else]

[webmaster]

Hi Samantha

I’m very sorry if the thread was closed when you still had something to say. I closed it because experience shows that any questions about the Update Service lead with a dreadful inevitability to an explosion of posts from a handful of members, who are particularly interested in the Update Service, about why they don’t like it, how they would change it, how to circumvent it, and the models that other companies use – but rarely to a direct answer! I have to balance the right of members to repeat their opinions again and again against the frustration of other members who just want a quick answer, a clear explanation of what the Update Service is (as opposed to what it could or should be) and/or feel that the formerly harmonious environment of TG is becoming dominated by repeated fractious discussions of this one issue.

Kate @ Xara

[webmaster]

@ everyone

Yes, our delivery model is different to what it was before the Update Service was introduced at v12. Our FAQ describes it as accurately as possible as it now stands. The content is now in the Online Content Catalog, which is not available after the Update Service expires. When you purchase you are buying the software version available on that day, plus access to updates. If you do not want access to updates after that date because you might lose them after a reinstall when your Update Service expires, then I recommend you don’t download them; instead wait until you see updates that you really want and then renew again – pretty much what you used to do before the Update Service!

Someone made the useful suggestion that the FAQ should be more prominent in TG. Good point, I will make it so. I will also review the content on our sites to see if there is something more we could do to overcome the expectations of anyone upgrading pre-v12 versions that the model will be exactly what it was before (without confusing people who have no idea that there ever was a different model!)

On the Update Service I don't think I've got anything left to say that hasn't already been said. Please don't think this is because I am refusing to listen to feedback. A lot of the feedback has been constructive and all of it heartfelt, but responses were compiled and summarized for Magix from the very first threads after the US was released, and not many new suggestions have been posted since. The Update Service is the model that Magix use to deliver all their titles, and clearly they have balanced the Fors (as expressed by browj2) vs the Againsts (as expressed by Acorn, handrawn et al) along with the hard evidence presented by sales. There have been some tweaks but as yet I see no evidence that they plan a major change as a result, although after 30 years experience all I know for sure is that no model is permanent 😊

Kate @ Xara

[handrawn]

Nothing is that, including the members you rely on to help out here

Thanks

The only thing I have against the update service personally [apart from it being confusing] is that it is unfair to those who lose their computer through no fault of their own and then lose the updates they had - nowhere have i seen this specific addressed in your FAQ's etc, maybe i missed it....

[Acorn]

the Fors (as expressed by browj2) vs the Againsts (as expressed by Acorn, handrawn et al)

I have no experience of Magix's products other than the one that was forced on us on XDA install or the fantastical ASEOPS software that is parked on my machine purposeless. What is wrong with the Magix model imposed on Xara is that it is wholly inappropriate for applications that produce outcomes that are locked to a version that may disappear. Try selling MS Office where Tables no longer can be edited and see how long that lasts. You then conflate my disdain for the SmartShapes that you have focused on as a result of Xara Cloud development; you have failed to integrate them onto the XDA design page and the outputs to web are a disaster for screen readers. Locking content behind a paywall is niggardly. Do so for templates, if you must. I can buy better for permanent use elsewhere, but leave the Components that are at the heart of our design efforts accessible. Most of your recent deliveries are buggy to an unprecedented degree and the Update Service Model (use 'em & confuse 'em) is incapable of delivering separated bug fixes or you have chosen to overlook doing so. Finally, to then allow Magix to package and force unwanted Newsfeeds and badly implement them to the detriment of your product is inexplicable.

To summarise I have the fullest support for the Update Service provided the "fall back" is eradicated. The rest of the faults we can take on one a time.

Acorn