At least give us a kiss(goodbye)

[cmpan1]

Gosh... I must be... I don't know what? I've been so so so damn mad at Adobe and Corel over the last two years, that is actually feels better over here with Xara.
I think I'm ok with the XARA model? Maybe I wouldn't be if not for my past with Adobe and CD.

You buy Corel at a HUGE price, but then you have to subscribe TOO!... to get their subscription, pro, whatever, BS content. They get ya two ways!
Adobe just slowly skins you alive over time one layer at a time. To lazy for description on the how... but many of you know. Even a one app subscription which may not
initially not 'feel' like a too high price to pay, will turn into more money... yes... it will...

Those two seem to have masterminded/created a subscription service that can/will continually find ways to force you / sell you more and more and more if you want to do this and that and this...

Guess it's all relevant. When one starts to 'compare', is when one starts to find out... WHO'S SCREWING YOU THE LEAST! And as far as I'm concerned software companies
somehow, somewhere, someway, found a way to come together in some mass conspiracy to grab the end user by the billiards and squeeze month after month, year after year.

This may sound jaded but, you... we... the end user... will ultimately lose. As long the software cartel/consortium continue on their path. Some here make it seem that there are
so many options... but why stay if there truly were?

Anyway, I am slowly surrendering to the way things are, and just do what I can do with what is available. Sometimes ya gotta just raise the white flag...

[wow, what a pessimist]

[mwenz]

CorelDRAW is perpetual licensed and also available as a subscription. There use to be standard level and premium as regards contents. This is not the same model as Xara.

I can reinstall CDX4 and any and all patches. I can still get to all the content. In fact, there is more content available than when it first came out. Same goes with X5, X6, X7, X8 and now 2017.

I can still get the bug fixes to CorelDraw 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.

This is in no way comparable to Xara's model.

[iamtheblues]

What you say is perfectly true, Mike and no caveat from me.
My reason for posting is to congratulate Cmpan1 for a post that encapsulates his (and our) dishotment (a word coined by Ian Dury) with software companies in general and the modern trend of some graphics companies to screw the customer blind - no names, no packdrill. Thank goodness for Affinity Designer!
Bob.

[digitalphaser]

Adobe offers a unique products. Adobe is the standard for any designer. And it's worth the money.

Xara is a very comfortable „toy“. With Xara I can make quick sketches and initial ideas. The one decent Xara’s export filter is PDF. This is good for the printing house. But this is quite inconvenient for file sharing and for editing in another software.

Example: Chinese factories (textiles, packaging) require only AI files. Xara’s AI8 files are good for simple drawings with simple fills. But AI8 does not work with complex gradient fills, editable texts and bitmaps.

I have dozens of examples from practice when Xara does not work.

CorelDraw is expensive? I rarely use a vector and once I learned CD(I dont have time to learn something new). So I'm buying a CD OEM Special Edition. This full-featured CD version (full supported and updateable) comes out a one year after the official release. But can not be upgraded. Now CD X8 costs about 120-140EUR. I'm not chasing the newest features. CD X6-7-8 versions cover all my needs(modern AI and CMYK PSD export). OEM model is very convenient and super cheap.

Over the past two years, Xara have made only one good update(OpenType). The rest is not worth the money.

[handrawn]

ah well, speaking of Corel, at least I am now free to upgrade to Painter 2018 straight away - that will be £179.99 inc VAT, but there is no program like it on earth if you actually paint, and there are some serious new features [ and permanent licence, not subscription ]

I am just so glad modern computing - large RAM, fast CPU, OpenGL - means raster is not the slog it was - anyone using Painter, or Fractal Design Painter as it was then, around 20 years ago will know what I mean - not all progress is bad

[iamtheblues]

Over the past two years, Xara have made only one good update(OpenType). The rest is not worth the money.

The Open Type feature is incomplete and clunky to use, it is basically guesswork and the UI is dreadful. They must try harder. If that is the finished product, then it's no big deal.
Bob.

[handrawn]

actually I think, though small to some maybe, the ability to give names to objects in layer gallery pretty powerful - would have made a heck of a difference when I was doing project work in xara

xara always said that they did not do nested layers because a grouping in xara was the equivalent to layering; never really bought that before.. but now you can name the groups and the objects in the gallery I can see that structure concept working...

[digitalphaser]

The Open Type feature is incomplete and clunky to use, it is basically guesswork and the UI is dreadful. They must try harder. If that is the finished product, then it's no big deal.
Bob.

I stopped with X11 version. So I can not appreciate it. But I read that it sucks. In CD OT works great.

actually I think, though small to some maybe, the ability to give names to objects in layer gallery pretty powerful - would have made a heck of a difference when I was doing project work in xara

xara always said that they did not do nested layers because a grouping in xara was the equivalent to layering; never really bought that before.. but now you can name the groups and the objects in the gallery I can see that structure concept working...

Yes, it is very likely that sometimes it can be convenient. But this is not a complete solution for PSD(previous versions also worked fine with psd groups). 100€ for one useful(maybe not) feature is definitely too much. I'll wait.

[handrawn]

no I'll grant you that - one of my main gripes at the time - but xara also included in version 365 the ability to import/export PSD layer-to-object/object-to-layer, and the combination of both layer object naming and this PSD feature was what really decided me to upgrade to 365 from version 11 last year... it is a whole lot better than it used to be [the PSD]

[Barbara B]

To bad that none of the regular members reacted when they're being pulled one over.
Only the same seem to resist injustice.
Yes I did express deliberately the word injustice and that is a word everybody seems to be full about nowadays but don't seem to grasp to its full extent.
Resistance starts with the small things and the way people here go about things is like this.
We screw you
You may rant about it
We explain ourselves but give nothing or no real answers
We give our moderators instructions to let us rant a bit more.
We give our moderators instructions to close the thread.
Done deal go back to business as usual and show them the finger

I think this is real mature behavior from a so called company.
[as they said in the transcription of the Nixon Tapes - EXPLETIVE DELETED]

Haakoo,

I think that most of us, at least most of us over the age of 30, feel this thread is getting red hot in several areas, so let me put out most of the flames here.

This thread began with a warmer-than-expected topic of users disliking (okay, hating) licensing structure for design programs. I've read through the posts and I feel the topic is spent. I'd like to address soem issues here in a civilized tone:

∇ Haakoo, the vulgarity you expressed in your post, which a moderator removed, is an offense on this forum of of about 2 points. All a member needs is a total of ten points in a six month period to get permanently banned from TG. I will cut you some slack because you've been a good and responsive and helpful member up until now.

∇ The best way to describe those who help run TG, our Moderators, are not "under the thumb of oppression" or anything equally sinister. The Mods are not paid, and they do not get preferential treatment if they act out. I felt it necessary to censure my own husband on TG...that's how impartial we are here. WE take on the assignment of moderating TG for two reasons. 1.) We want and need a hassle-free environment within which we can engaged, trade, laugh, share. 2. We are masochistic

∇ If you have, okay, you might want to cover your ears...a bitch to make with Xara and/or MAGIX, write to them directly. TalkGraphics is a forum that is "free" in shades of grey, in matters of degrees. We're not a police state, but we also don't encourage subjects we've made off-limits, language you probably wouldn't use with your grandmother We accept what we can have gladly, and we just accept those things we can't have.

∇ Haakoo, I hope you can accept where the Mods are coming from as tireless, thanklessly making hot topics more moderate ones...that's where the namesake "moderator" comes from.

I earnestly suggest that you measure your "rants" in a ROI fashion. TG is not Xara, it has never been Xara, but conversely, this is not the place to take out your misgivings and suspicions on the company that TalkGraphics is not part of, okay?

I'd like to expect more valuable input from a valuable member in the future, Haakoo. If you decide to continue with your tone and futurity that only inflames others, I don't expect it, but I will deal with it.

The choice is up to you. Choices are part of freedom, BTW.

I'm closing this thread because it's beginning to compost.
Sincerely,

Barbara B.
Admin.