Perspective Tools?

[hseiken]

First, I need to give you guys a disclaimer, I have purchased the newest Xara, but I still haven't gotten the newest one up and running in Linux, so this request may actually be already taken care of.

Basically, I've recently run across a couple of 'perspective drawing' tools from other programs and thought if Xara doesn't have them right now, then I could suggest it with two different examples on implementation. While Xara does have 3D transformation/extrude/rotation options, this has limited use when thinking of traditional perspective drawing with vanishing points. So I offer these videos showing 2 possible solutions to implement automated vanishing points for perspective sketching.

The first perspective tool example comes from InkScape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7mivE18Xi0 <-- long video, skip around

So basically Inkscape's perspective cube tool works kinda strange in that it's not real 3D, but a multi-quadralateral drawing tool that creates the impression of a block by using perspective drawing techniques of vanishing point as a person would on paper. Drawing multiple boxes without changing the tool will keep the vanishing point and you can quickly block in a perspective scene, even with distorted perspective because you can move the vanishing points yourself...the downside is, each opject has it's own vanishing point, so if you move the perspective point of one object, not all objects are affected.

The 2nd solution to perspective sketching is vanishing point snap as used in this program for raster drawing and personally what I think would be most useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r96G15n08Y4 <-- also long video, skip around

In this 2nd video, we see that the artist can choose to put up their vanishing points and when vanishing snap is on, then lines drawn within the threshold of being towards/away a vanishing piont will then snap your line to that vanishing point, so blocking out an image, I imagine, might feel more comfortable (I've not tried this program).

Current solutions to this problem without changing xara requires the artist to manually set up their perspective grid and horizon lines then draw their guidelines by hand with the pen tool, then come back over to draw the line ends, etc and it's doable, but it's just not as friendly as it could bFor the time being, I'm fine with using inkscape's perspective drawing tool and exporting it into xara for 'beautification', but it would be nice if Xara had something for perspective sketching and drawing outside of the 'individual object rotation' 3d they have implemented now which is useful for other things, but not for, say, quickly blocking in a city scene.

[wizard509]

without changing xara requires the artist to manually set up their perspective grid and horizon lines then draw their guidelines by hand with the pen tool, then come back over to draw the line ends, etc and it's doable, but it's just not as friendly as it could bFor the time being, I'm fine with using inkscape's perspective drawing tool and exporting it into xara for 'beautification', but it would be nice if Xara had something for perspective sketching and drawing outside of the 'individual object rotation' 3d they have implemented now which is useful for other things, but not for, say, quickly blocking in a city scene.

Good finds hseiken. i rarely do any perspective drawing anymore but those were impressive vids. I really liked the sketcchbook pro 2015 one. Made a lot of sense to me. Maybe I missed something but the inkscape video did not seem to be complete. As you say, if I want to draw something with Xara in perspective I go to great lengths to set things up the way I understand it and it is a real pain. Maybe I missed something else also but I didn't see any way of setting the (station point), by that I mean exactly where I want to look, but then I need to try them out to see for sure. I personally do not like corner perspectives. I prefer to set things up so I am looking at what I want to feature, that is just one tool but to me an important one to help put across the point of the illustration. There are a couple of other things I am wondering about also. Looks like I have my work cut out for me to investigate those things huh.

[hseiken]

Good finds hseiken. i rarely do any perspective drawing anymore but those were impressive vids. I really liked the sketcchbook pro 2015 one. Made a lot of sense to me. Maybe I missed something but the inkscape video did not seem to be complete.

I think what really breaks the 3d tool in inkscape is lack of immediacy in the options and really, the anchor points are kind of broken as it doesn't let you expand the box to all visible directions both ways (i.e. I can change X width from the front but I cannot move the back for some reason...) as well it doesn't allow for auxilliary vanishing points (slopes, angled objects not aligned with the main grid), or rounds. This is where I think sketchbook is more complete, but if somehow a tool in Xara could combine both of these methods so that also the 3d blocks drawn down as a group share a vanishing point that can be moved after drawn (you can do this in inkscape, it has usefulness), but also have those vanishing points snappable by other drawing tools as well so that you can create blocks quickly along with freehand 3d grid sketches directly on top of it.

As you say, if I want to draw something with Xara in perspective I go to great lengths to set things up the way I understand it and it is a real pain. Maybe I missed something else also but I didn't see any way of setting the (station point), by that I mean exactly where I want to look, but then I need to try them out to see for sure.

It would seem like it would be easy to possibly use xara's grid snap to load custom perspective grids along side the square and orthographic. It would need additional options for drawing for it to feel natural and possibly some kind of live grid adjustment with right click menu option on the canvas.

I personally do not like corner perspectives. I prefer to set things up so I am looking at what I want to feature, that is just one tool but to me an important one to help put across the point of the illustration. There are a couple of other things I am wondering about also. Looks like I have my work cut out for me to investigate those things huh.

I was thinking about similar tools, such as in real life, the equal spacer (i'm not sure what it is called, but it is generally 3-5 pencils on a rack that can extend the spacing and is used to scale objects and quickly create perspective reference points). Something like this tool could be useful somehow...imagine this...

Create 6 dots and align them how you wish then group them and make them 'magnetized' and then this will auto create a new copy of them and you resize it and an depending on how you transform the copy, it will create a '3d plane' so that all of your strokes across that window will be gridded to it's percieved vanishing point....now that i type it out, it actually sounds quite ridiculous and over complicated. :\

Hmmm...

[Big Frank]

First, I need to give you guys a disclaimer, I have purchased the newest Xara, but I still haven't gotten the newest one up and running in Linux, so this request may actually be already taken care of. .

It hasn't.

Your post highlights the fact that despite its impressive list of tools, Xara is missing some very basic features, one of which is exactly what you describe. So often I see drawings shown on here by Xara users where the perspective is so obviously wrong. But because the program offers them no assistance or guidance in this area, unless they have been schooled in the physics of perspective, they are lost. And Xara knows this and has never done anything to redress this obvious hole in the toolbox because its attention, voluntary or involuntary, is elsewhere. I'm using Xubuntu and Inkscape often and finding things all the time that either could or, as in this case, should have been in Xara. It's a great shame but not worth shouting about since Xara have shown time and again that drawing and illustration stopped being their main focus a long, long time ago. That's fine as I use their web creation tools as well but their target market demographic stopped being you and me, i.e. people who think about correct perspective, long ago. Their resources are limited and they have made their choice.

[hseiken]

It hasn't.

Your post highlights the fact that despite its impressive list of tools, Xara is missing some very basic features, one of which is exactly what you describe. So often I see drawings shown on here by Xara users where the perspective is so obviously wrong. But because the program offers them no assistance or guidance in this area, unless they have been schooled in the physics of perspective, they are lost. And Xara knows this and has never done anything to redress this obvious hole in the toolbox because its attention, voluntary or involuntary, is elsewhere. I'm using Xubuntu and Inkscape often and finding things all the time that either could or, as in this case, should have been in Xara. It's a great shame but not worth shouting about since Xara have shown time and again that drawing and illustration stopped being their main focus a long, long time ago. That's fine as I use their web creation tools as well but their target market demographic stopped being you and me, i.e. people who think about correct perspective, long ago. Their resources are limited and they have made their choice.

That said, I finally got to give Sketchup a quick run recently, and I think the way they handle 3D in a 2D view could somehow be translated to non-3d vectors...i.e. creating inset extrusions, creating curves on an angled surface, etc. I know this sounds like it's not really a 2d drawing program anymore with 3d operations coming into the fold, but with their 3d engine already in place, it could be used as the groundwork for something perspective based.

I'm not angry about it as everyone else seems to be on the board. There's workarounds for everything, but if a workaround is used by enough people, then it should be addressed as a new, logical tool or tool extention at some point. Let's hope!

[wizard509]

I am not angry about it either. Lets face it, Xara is not a CAD or drafting program, and never was intended to be, but it is very good at what it does. Certainly we can make a grid to help draw perspectives, but it isn't as simple as making a grid, one would have to make several, 30/60, 45, one point and. possibly a 3 point. We already have some of the tools in the form of the mould tool. I must admit that I have not really investigated the perspective capabilities we have, I mostly concentrate on other aspects of the program. I have spent years doing and painting perspectives by hand and I know there are other dedicated perspective programs that have been mentioned from time to time, google sketchup being one. Why not use them and save the image and bring it into Xara to do the real art work as Gray does. Personally I like that approach better than making our Xara applications bloated. Have I tried to do perspectives with my application, yes I have, but, the way I want to do it is a real pain. It's not the fault of the program but mine.
Just for your information I am enclosing some images. Most are architectural delineations but one is not, however even the oil painting shows some perspective even though it is not as precise as the other stuff, but then I didn't want it to be. Most of my work has been very tight and done with small brushes (#5,4, and 2 round sable), but I long to "loosen up". so with my oil paintings I use a one inch flat brush and that helped. Now if I can just figure out how to make my Xara work looser that would be cool.

[Boy]

Haven't seen your Discovery painting in a while. I really like it.

[Albacore]

I use Adobe Illustrator a lot and yes I have tried the perspective grid which you can use, as Larry has describe, number of grids that you can use but I would have to state that it is very cumbersome to set up. You spend more time set up the grid planes than you do drawing the 2D views to place on the grid. I am a pencil and paper man I quickly sketch out things on paper/iPad first then bring them in to what ever programme I think would be the best to use using layers I place the sketch in and work from there. Now these sketches are really rough now you can see where I am going trying to arrange the grid to suit your paper is hard work. Adobe too has gone down the Sketchbook Pro method too with there mobile app Illustrator Line which you then can bring in through the cloud to work on your rough sketch on your desktop. I do think that this is the way forward using tablets for sketching and desktops for finishing and refining. If I was going to do many architectural drawings I would go straight to CAD software and do it directly there but that's not my bag and I don't think it should be Xara's either. At the moment Autodesk has delivered many clever programmes at the moment: from the schools version of Inventor, Sketchbook Pro iPad/Desktop £10/£65 respectively.
Thought the Inkscape vid was appalling, the woman demonstrating the 3D capabilities had not a clue on what she was trying to do or about 2 or 3 pt perspective.

[wizard509]

Thanks Boy.