Short Book layout - feasible in Photo and Graphic Designer7?

[ganeshagames]

Hi, I'm a newbie but I wonder if PaGD7 could be used for a short, letter-sized 48 page grayscale booklet with two column text and images on nearly every page (at 300DPI) and multiple fonts. Can the software handle this or I would be asking too much out of it?

I seem unable to find an automatic page numbering option, which would be necessary for a print publication. All other needed functions, including accurate kerning and baseline controls are there. I found some old mentions of auto page numbering in old threads but no positive answer. It would be a nice feature to have, assuming the program can handle such filesizes.

[mwenz]

I don't have PG&D but assume it can hold that many pages. Images, shouldn't be an issue either.

Though you are not going to have auto page numbering, placing 48 numbers is trivial to placing the text and images, massaging them for layout. I would add a few layout lines for a footer and the page numbers so they are consistent from page to page in their placement.

The bigger question is that though one could do this in a design application such as PG&D, why? A layout application is much, much more suited for this type of production piece. They don't have to cost much (PagePlus for instance. Download the free version, install it, exit and you'll be given an opportunity for a reduced price on the exit splash screen) to not anything via OpenSource solutions such as Scribus.

Take care, Mike

[ganeshagames]

Thanks Mike. I am learning to use PagePlus (bought the new version a week ago!). I just wondered if Xara PGD could work better in terms of stability because of the way it handles heavy graphics.

[mwenz]

I've done a 600+ page publication in PP. The one main caveat in PP is there are no running headers/footers. Other than that, it is pretty stable. There are a couple gotchas in the current release that have affected others. There is a patch forthcoming to fix those items.

Take care, Mike

[ad1066]

The original PDF for Spookybeans was 74 pages, all laid out in Xara Designer Pro 6 (as for the reason, it was easier than exporting all the artwork into some other program, plus I could modify the art on the fly if necessary). The print version is currently in the process of being laid out, and that's going to be around 110 pages.

The main problem with doing this is that the more artwork is loaded up, the more resources the file will take, and the longer it's going to take for certain functions. Spookybeans is broken up by chapter into about 5 or 6 separate files. Each one takes about 30 seconds to save, and about 3-5 minutes to export to PDF. Once the PDFs are created, it's a simple matter to combine them into one file in Acrobat Pro.

And there's also the other things mentioned: no headers/footers (though in 7 you can have recurring elements I believe), no automatic page numbers.

-- Ben

[handrawn]

I've done a couple of cartoon [and therefore no text as such] books in xara - as other say, lots of print quality images slows down the program, and my xar files were around 360MB each..]

I wouldn't do this in xara again to be honest, a page making/layout/publishing program would be my choice next time round

[EJ]

Hi,
I answered this earlier but it went away into cyberspace.

Yes, you can do it but as others have said, it will be much faster and better in a dedicated program. Page Plus, Word or Scribus would be good. You don't have to go to InDesign or Pagemaker or Quark.

If you want page numbers, headers and footers, different styles, numbered figures, lists of contents and figures, an index etc and for these to be be dynamic then do not go with Xara. Double column you can get away with but trying to balance columns with graphics will be fun. Did I mention tables?

If you are going photo intensive then your file sizes can get large and saving frequently will be a PITA. Slowdown will occur and cut and paste will drive you to distraction.

A 50 page document with lets say a 3 MB photo on each page will be a 150 MB file. Save it once a day and you have almost a GB a week. I usually save three times a day (A, B and C) and so you can multiply by three and thats not being paranoid. Word gets round this by allowing you to link your pictures so the saved file size never gets much above the text size-probably a couple of hundred kB. This way you can stay fast.

Within a file size of a couple of hundred meg you are going to have fun also with cut-and-paste at the layout stage. It will be like swimming in treacle. Word gets around this by using place holders in the file.

I use Xara for my cover graphics and for the preparation of cave maps. My last book had 192 pages, 42 maps, 330 endnotes, sketches, appendices and an index. Books have a habit of getting more complex rather than less!!

I also found it useful to do my text preparation in a very simple word free processor (Atlantis Nova) which creates files compatible with Word and then transferred directly to Word for layout and the complex stuff. Trying the same thing with Xara files was fraught with problems.

I also tried individual chapters but keeping them all updated got me down.

But Hey, do it in Xara and you will learn a lot. You may never do another book but you'll get to know the program. There is a fair bit in the archives but you have to dig for it. I seem to remember a 50 page book on Flatland done in Xara with graphics. Not sure whether it was double column but it was a few years ago and things have moved on since then.

cheers, Erik

PS. If you have specific questions then get back to me.

[David O'Neil]

I also found it useful to do my text preparation in a very simple word free processor (Atlantis Nova) which creates files compatible with Word and then transferred directly to Word for layout and the complex stuff.

A fantastic answer for the OP. If I may ask, why did you use AN instead of directly using Word? I can't understand why, if you have Word, you wouldn't just use it and skip a step. (And if you set up your styles up front, it might just save another step.)

[David O'Neil]

(More investigation shows Atlantis Nova uses styles, so that may not be an issue. After ten years, and repeated customer requests [as well as promises that it was soon coming, perhaps by the end of 2006] it still doesn't handle tables. Such a limitation may be a bigger issue.)

[EJ]

David,
Sometimes I do go with Word from the start. However, in such cases I have to watch out that I do not start adding pictures, fiddle with the margins, change the fonts etc etc. too early. When I do text I want to do text not get distracted into layout.

There is also something satisfying about using a small program (<1MB) as against a giant one. It means that I can have it portable and thus work on the fly.

I know about the tables, and floating graphics issues. These have bugged Atlantis users for years. It does do inline graphics. My pet peeve is that it does not link to photos but that protects me from myself:-). I'd be tempted then to include them. What the program does do it does very well.

I have also kept a diary for years and find AN perfect for this and it has the familiarity of an old caving boot. Word processors are strange beasts. Once you get used to one it can take a lot to change. Have a talk to a Ventura user; that program has not been updated for years or is it decades and yet there is a loyal band who would not use any anything else.

I'm rambling.
cheers, Erik