Ride Thailand Holidays

[Technoir Design]

Hi All,
just finished this site for a client. We went live yesterday morning, even though there are still a few minor tweaks to do (a couple of images are not of sufficient quality resolution and will be replaced as soon as we have better ones).

However, the rest is complete for Stage 1. Ongoing from here will be extended product range and the addition of an online shop rather than the current 'no cost' booking system.

My client (Mike) is very pleased with the result and, indeed, so am I. I therefore offer it for critique and commentary from your good selves. All comments will be considered and potentially implemented as part of the ongoing evolution of the site.

The site was developed using WD6 and the URL is www.ridethailandholidays.com.

I look forward to hearing from you!

Best Regards


TD

[angelize]

Very nice site. The colour scheme is very pleasing

[xtom]

I like it, very nice. I notice one thing, the pop up photos distort the text below them when you mouse over them.

[Technoir Design]

Hi angelize & xtom,
thank you very much for your comments thus far. I'm very grateful.

xtom, yes you are correct. I noticed this and considered reducing the size of the mouseover images to try and resolve that. Then I figured, it's only a temporary distortion so maybe I'd just leave it. You have now encouraged me to fix it though. There is a similar issue on the "Hotels" & "Motorcycles" pages, where the bottom left photo shadow distorts the small bit of text that says "Click to view larger image". I probably should attend to that too - as it's been bugging me!

One thing I forgot to say in my initial post was a "BIG, BIG Thank You" to everyone at TG (Sledger, Covoxer and many more) who responded to some of my cries for help over the last few weeks. I couldn't have done this without you.

Best Regards


TD

[gsthunder]

Before I say another word let me say that site looks really good! No, it is EXCELLENT! Very professional and well thought out. I really like it. Actually, I especially like how you used the little text/speech windows here and there to add sort of a personal touch from the owner/Mike. That is a cool idea. I may just steal it from you.

I did run into a big problem however that kept me from viewing the entire site at 1st. I had a heck of a time with your navbar.

PROBLEM 1 - Half the time it did nothing( i.e. mouse over = color change & drop down ). I could not get it to do anything???

PROBLEM 2 - The other half of the time the navbar functioned normally in that the menu did drop down as you would expect but when I moved my pointer down, to select a page to go to, the drop down menu vanished the second I got off the navbar itself so you couldn't select a page to view???

NOTE - Maybe 1 in 25-30+ attempts minimum got me to the page I wanted to see. Really hard for me to navigate the site because of that. In Internet Explorer(IE) anyway.

I know it is best viewed in Firefox(FF)based on your icon in the upper left. I always use IE however, and I was there in IE, so I tried it out in that 1st. I couldn't navigate the site though so I had to swap over to FF to see anything. The navbar did work properly in FF so I was able to check things out.

SOLUTION? - Looking at the source code it looks like you are using a java based navbar( I think - I am a self taught web designer so I don't know a fraction of what some of the people here do but I do ok ). I have had IE problems with java navbars in WD( WD5 ). I posted a site not long ago that it took me forever to get a java navbar, a slideshow, and an embeded video that were all on the same page to all work properly in IE( worked ok in FF ). If 2 of the 3 worked the 3rd thing wouldn't. It was all java conflicts. Might be your issue? I had to change some code and even a file type for everything to work.

This is just my opinion but you really should make the navbar work properly in IE. I know a lot of people don't like IE and use other browsers like FF but IE is the most widely used even if so many dislike it. All sites should work properly( 95%+ at least )in IE. For sure the navbar should work so people can move around your site.

NOTE - I have FF on my system just as a means to check my sites and how they work in another browser. If I didn't have it as a backup I would not have been able to view your site. I would have given up due to the navigation issues.

While there are a ton of browsers out there that people use in my personal opinion all sites should work in IE. While a lot of people dislike IE the majority of people visiting a site will do so using IE. If your site doesn't work properly in IE, and the customer has to swap browsers to view your siite, you will lose customers. If I was a potential customer coming there you would have lost me because I couldn't navigate the site. I don't mind swapping to a different browser from IE when I am checking out a site for someone else but when I show up as a customer I would not swap from IE just to view the site. I would go elsewhere. Most people will only have one browser anwyay.

SUGGESTIONS ON SPECIFIC PAGES:

1.) - On your home page you have a seal/symbol icon to the right( Ride Thailand Holidays - No.1 For Fun ). The No. 1 For Fun text is too large and extends out onto the seal/symbol. IMO it needs to be shrunk down to stay within the inner red circle. The seal/symbol is big enough that the text will still be clear and easy to read when made smaller. It doesn't look right to me anwyay as is.

2.) - The Problems icon on the Home Page in the upper right corner is pretty hard to read. Maybe a different color scheme as well so it is easier to notice.

NOTE - for what it is worth I generally look for, and see, things like the problem icon and the optimized for browser XXXX at the bottom of a page not the top.

3.) - I hate seeing YouTube videos on a a business site! Kind of a personal quirk of mine but I hate it when I see sites do that. Sometimes you have no choice I know. I have a site with an embeded video ad from Yellowpages.com and I am doing a site right now with an embeded video from a local newspaper. Neither place will give up the video file itself for use even with proper © given. Sometimes you just can't get the video file itself and have no choice. I would say that is not the case here though? Unless this is due to storage capacity and/or bandwidth limits I would get the actual video files if you don't have them and run them through the site itself( .swf, MP4, etc... ).

4A.) - Your contact form and booking form open in new windows. I would have them open in the same window and add the navbar to the pages( or is there a conflict of some kind which made you do it this way? ). However, if you are going to do it in a new window add a CLOSE PAGE button at the top and maybe the bottom too. I used to have a lot of site info opening in new pages on my sites but people complained about having to manually close pages. Having the buttons calmed them down some. I pretty much limit opening pages in a new window to times when the viewer is being directed to a page off site now, or, when I use it for full sized views of pictures. Any page in the site itself opens in the same window now for me and the customers/viewers seems to prefer that. FWIW.

4B.) - I see the both the contact form and booking form scroll up and down as they are too large for the box they are in. The booking form is huge so that is needed there. I would increase things as needed to have the entire contact form show though. It is really close now and wouldn't take much. I just think having the entire thing showing would look better because it is almost all showing now,

5.) - On the Prices & Options page I can't read the text under Prices. There is a huge text image, and two smaller ones, sort of in the background( some trype of advertisement? )but it is all blurry and it makes things unreadable. I can't read those text images nor the prices info( without really looking close ).

Overall it is a fantastic site. You have done a great job of covering everything a potential customer might want to see/know about. You have also provided it in a user friendly and visually appealing way that makes the site visitor want to stay and look around( if the navbar worked ). That is not always easy to do. The business owner should be very pleased with that site for sure. I would never go to that location as a customer but I must say I just had to look around the site as it really was interesting.

Sorry this was so long. I try and do more than just say "looks good". I try and view everything and comment on what sticks out good or bad to me. Hope it helps and again great job.

[Technoir Design]

Hi gsthunder,
thank you so very much for the very positive feedback and taking the time to raise the issues that you did. I'll try and address them in the same order you did;

1) IE Menu Issue;
Yup. Noticed that one some time ago and scoured TG for a solution. "Compatibility Mode" helps a bit but doesn't resolve it. You are correct. IE3 is the majority usage and I can't hide from the problem any longer. I'm not a coder I just used the nav bar created by WD6. I couldn't say if its Java or DHTML - but I guessed the latter.

The dropdown menus work sometimes on mouseover and other times require one click. It is not exactly consistent, as you say - but nowhere near as trublesome as the innability to select a dropdown option. Obviously, I'd love to fix both issues.

You mention a possible compatibility issue with the embedded videos. If this was the case, would you expect the problem to only be apparant on those pages that have video or through the site as a whole?

I will open another 'cry for help' on TG forum after I finish this..

Any suggestions you can make as to what to try would be gratefully received

2) Home Page Seal:
It was actually deliberately done that way - as were two more (on the Prize Draw Details & Form pages). However, I take your point and have changed them all according to your suggestion.

3) 'Problems icon' visibility;
I actually didn't want it to 'stand out like a sore thumb' - it's a bit like advertising you WILL have problems - but I agree that it wasnt the easiest to read. So, it's changed..

'Problems' and 'optimised for FF' links placed at the bottom. From a Usability persepctive, most people would naturally see the top of the screen first (usually top right) hence, the current placement provides higher prominence. It is also closer to the problem area (normally navbar related issues).

So, they will stay as they are.

4.) YouTube videos;
The tie-in with YouTube is deliberate. We are establishing an RTH Community via You Tube, Facebook & Linked In - all in an effort to drive traffic to the RTH site. An "RTH Channel" has been set-up and branded on You Tube.

Furthermore, the idea is create a diivision of labour for maintaining the site. Our video man does the videos, posts to You Tube and I can then place on the site accordingly.

At present we are using a mix of RTH and other videos but over time this will change to RTH only.

Hence, You Tube stays (for now).

5) Forms Open In New Windows;
I started with forms opening 'within the site' and then opted for this approach. I wanted the form to feel like a separate item. If the User decides not to proceed with the form, it's easy to close the page or tab and they are still in the site on the previous window. The "Thank You" pages - displayed upon completing the forms do have a "Close" button on them.

I'm not going to change them for now, but if User feedback is similar to yours, I will re-integrate them within the site again. I might not include navigation bars though - as I wnat to 'push'them a little to complete the process. All information they require to do this is contained within the form itself or via pop-up windows.

6) Form Scroilling;
Again, a deliberate choice. Why? When the user makes mistakes the form is pushed off the bottom of the frame by the error message fields and it looks ugly. I started with forms that were in a number of next/back sections but that was too confusing for some of my User Test subjects. As it is now, they can get every field wrong and scroll the whole form without messing up the looks. So, again, for now it stays as is.

7) Spurious Text Image On the Prices & Options;
Wow! Great spot on that one. Thank you so much. Pretty embarassing and not there the last time I checked. I'm not exactly sure how it happened but after you pointed it out I went through the whole site. I found two other pages with smaller, but similar issues.

The funny thing was, in WD6 view it looked perfect.

My theory. All my images are not named. They take the default WD6 style of using numbers (e.g. 1.jpg, 2.jpg etc). The only thing I can think of was that some image 'tidy up' messed up during publication. A complete re-publish didn't cure it and i had to force the images to change so they would correct themselves. I need to keep an eye on that from now on.

My internet connection here in Thailand is a bit flaky and it may also be due to an 'interupt/connection loss' during upload. Whatever it is - it's unwelcome!

--

I'm very flattered by your comments re: the site - not least because it's my first full commercial venture and it has been a labour of love over the last couple of months.

Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery, so if you want to use the speech bubble idea then please be my guest. I did come up with the idea myself but I'd be very surprised if someone, somewhere hadn't already used it. Not much is genuinely 'new' these days


Thanks once gain for your trouble.

Best Regards

TD

[gsthunder]

I am always glad to offer constructive feedback. Thanks to you for taking it as such and not getting angry. I always get nervous leaving detailed feedback as I am a "self taught web designer". My technical knowledge is just not as advanced as so many here and I worry people will not take feedback well from me for that reason. My feedback is usally long too so I worry people will take it as me trashing their work vs offering "details" on why I feel like I do as well. Hasn't happened but I still worry.

I like the changes you made( especially resizing the text in the symbol/seal - HUGE improvement )and your other explanations make perfect sense.

As to the navbar. Yes, you have to click it at times. Most of the time it just doesn't work. I just tried messing around with it again and it is really frustrating. I am sorry but I am not going to be a lot of help solving the problem I am afraid. My code knowledge and skills are not advanced enough to take code apart like that and trouble shoot glitches.

Now, with that said, I looked at the source data for your page and I see your navbar uses the following lines of code to operate your navbar...

Begins w/ :
<script type='text/javascript'>//<![CDATA[

Ends w/:
//]]></script>

To me that is java script. May be DHTML or XHTML or whatever HTML style but it is telling the browser how to perform a function using java script in my opinion( CSJS ). I may be wrong as like you I am no code genius. That is why they make, and I buy, software like WD that does it for me. I do believe it is java based code/script however.

I think it is causing a conflict in IE just as it did in my site I talked of earlier. I had a Xara Webstyle4 navbar based on java and then I had entered some script manually for a java based slide show. I also had an embeded video( not java but it was effected by the other 2 things ). I could only make 2 of the 3 things work at the same time in IE. The video and then either the navbar or the slideshow. Everything worked fine in FF.

To resolve it I had to create a flash( .swf )slideshow. I could not make it all work in IE otherwise. There are a lot of things on your site that use <script> and it is "possible" it is creating the same type of conflict I saw? Maybe not exactly the same thing as your navbar still works, even if imperfectly. I had complete failure of an item.

I would try and get some help from Xara. If the entire site was made using WD6 this sounds like a bug/glitch? Probably soemthing really small like changing one or two little words in the code.

Sorry I am not more help.

PS - I use IE7 FWIW. I do not like IE8 and have resisted upgrading to it at this point. Maybe someone here with IE8, or even an earlier version( IE5, IE5.5, or IE6 )can check to see if it does it there too? Maybe it can be narrowed down to a specific browser version problem?

[gsthunder]

I did some searching for you and came across some info. After doing the search I looked at your code a little closer and discovered Xara used CSS to do the menu. There are a LOT of problems with IE6 and IE7 with the CSS :hover code. This link might help you out.

http://www.webtechwise.com/fix-ie7-s...hover-problem/

I can't say this is it for sure but it might be some or all of the issue? The symptoms are similar at times anyway.

You know, I still think you may be having a conflict with something else in your site. I would be very shocked if Xara came out with a product that did not address this known issue above. I will keep looking but not sure it will do any good.

[Technoir Design]

gsthunder,
what can I say? You are a total star!

I thank you very much for your help with this and taking the trouble to do some research on my behalf. I really appreciate that.

FYI my 'cry for help' on TG Forum resulted in a response from bb2 and sledger. They believe that the conflict may be due to some of the Google products embedded in the site. Google Translation, Maps & Calendar are all embedded here. Sledger thought he remembered a similar problem due to maps that had been raised in another post.

So, it looks like I have a number of avenues to investigate now. It may take me a little while to go through the options, so if I appear to 'go quiet' for a while - that's why - but I will report back on this matter, as it might save someone else some grief in the future.

I will have to start with a vanilla test site and add a component at a time. If there is no change then it's the CSS route.

OK. Time to get to work!

Very Best Regards and BIG Thanks to you.


TD

[gsthunder]

We have a winner I do believe.

GOOGLE TRANSLATE!

I actually saved your home page as an HTML document complete with files so I could play with it on my computer and have some control over it. I wanted to go in and be able to read code line by line and take some stuff out myself and see what it did. Although I am no code expert as stated I wanted to really look and see if I could find anything I have run into before. I really wanted to help out so it sort of became a little mission for me.

I found this line of code right near the top which I should have seen before. Would have made our lives a whole lot easier...

<script type="text/javascript" src="index_htm_files/menu.js"></script>

The menu.js is a java file like the ones Xara uses in Webstyle4 to control the navbars. It is sort of the list of directions that tells your navbar what to do( i.e. drop down portion ). Wish I had seen that sooner instead of running around like a chicken with it's head cut off and saying this and then that about java and css and on and on. My inexperince showed no doubt.

This IS exactly the same situation I ran into as I first thought. You have a bunch of <script> based things causing conflicts on the site. It forced me to change the slideshow from a java script one to a flash(.swf)slideshow. I knew it the second I saw that line of code on your page. Well, I had a good idea anyway. A more experienced web designer could probably tweak the code to fix it but that is beyond my skill level.

To test it out I added the same Google Translate item to the site I keep talking about and WHAM down it all went. Same exact problem I ran into before with the slideshow. Actually, it was worse. It wiped out my navbar, the flash(.swf) slideshow, and the embeded video. They just disappeared. Take it out and the site worked fine again. Now on to your saved files. I removed Google Translate from your site and your navbar worked perfectly in IE. Add it back and the problem comes right back.

So, same basic issue I had just a little different symptoms. I am using older programs( Webstyle4 and WD5 )however so some of the bugs apparantly have been worked out in WD6 which allows you to see partial function whereas it just kills my site. Remove the Google Translate "widget" from your site. Replace it with a regular hyperlink from an image to the manual translation page on Google. It isn't as fancy but it will get the job done and everything will work for you - or should.

Link = http://translate.google.com/#

Take a screenshot of your home page and then crop it to the google translate area and then save as an image. Insert the image on the site with a link( open in new window so the visitor can come back and copy the page address to enter )to the address above. Should blend in to the background without noticing it is an image and not an embeded device if you crop it really close. You get this...



Or maybe just use some text with the GT logo ...



As said, when I remove that code from your site saved to my computer the navbar works properly. I would try it.

Hope this got it for you. I am not giving up until it is solved. WE WILL WIN!