[Suggestion] Implementing H1 Headings without coding

[pauland]

John, on an H1 related issue - I'm curious about how XWd handles text for wysiwyg.

I haven't really looked, but my guess is that for various font sizes used in XWD/Xtreme you can match the font size and styles in the browser just by using CSS. So, if I choose a font size of 18 in XWD, you will set a CSS font style of 18 for that text in html.

For H1 support - or any other style - the user could select text and pick a style (H1 or even perhaps one of their own choosing) and have XWD create the CSS style required (just as it does now) on html export.

So perhaps in some lifetime, XWD could have a list of styles - which might include H1.. style presets (and maybe allow users to define new styles), allow users to apply styles to selected text and on export generate the CSS for those styles.

I can't really see that it's a huge change to XWD.

Anyway, I realise it's a sensitive subject but it's only a discussion that can easily be ignored.

A great approach to dealing with unwanted requests is used by many companies and it quickly resolves the issue: "Great idea Paul, we'll add it to our list of requested enhancements for future consideration".. .. and file it in the WPB.

Paul

[covoxer]

Paul, we are walking in circles.... And this irritates. All your arguments were told many times in different forms, as well as mine. It was already stated before that styles concept may be implemented in future as is it relatively highly rated improvement on the wish list.........
How many times do we have to repeat all this again?
And yes, every next time the cycle loops I'm getting more upset and shall react as I usually do when someone asks the same question on and on - simple answer, then extended answer then louder in case I'm not heard and finally I'll start to ignore it once and for all....

[pauland]

OK, though is it just my comments or anyone raising the H1 issue at all?

[covoxer]

This issue is already discussed down to bare bones. There's nothing more to discuss. Unless someone will bring any new argument not mentioned before, there's no point of debating about it. All questions are already answered, it's enough to read this thread from the start or other threads about <h1> here.

[remi]

There is no HTML in XWD.

I know.

There is no HTML semantics in XWD.

I know.

You work with XWD design and WEB semantics.

No, I don't work with XWD designs at all, because of the lack of semantically meaningful HTML and the very limited absolute positionized layout approach.

On the other hand - if you are experienced enough to understand and create high quality HTML, you shouldn't use XWD for a resulting product, only for prototyping.

I'm very experienced and I create hand-crafted websites. But I don't use XWD for prototyping, because of the lack of semantically meaningful HTML and the very limited absolute positionized layout approach.

We are walking in circles... - we hear the same old arguments in order to learn something about the current status with the HTML export filter in Xara Web Developer and also Xara Xtreme 5.

Once again - the HTML export filter could be better, but we have to wait one or two more years for that. I can live with that, because I see no need to upgrade my old Xara Xtreme Pro 3 license in the next two years, as this is the timeframe Xara assumedly needs, in order to change their product policy (code word "developing new innovative vector functions").

We don't have to repeat all this again and again - unless you're starting a new cycle loop. Do you follow me?

Remi

[covoxer]

I know.

Good.

I know.

Good.

No, I don't work with XWD designs at all,

Then why are you discussing it?

I'm very experienced and I create hand-crafted websites.

Good.

But I don't use XWD for prototyping, because of the lack of semantically meaningful HTML and the very limited absolute positionized layout approach.

Then you probably have some other prototyping tool that generates meaningful HTML and have liquid layout? What is it? Photoshop? Illustrator? Perhaps Dreamweaver, but that is not rapid at all. So what is it? Or you don't do rapid prototyping at all? In this case why are you commenting on tool that has absolutely nothing to do with your workflow?

Once again - the HTML export filter could be better,

Everything in this world could be better. But there's always price for improvement.

(code word "developing new innovative vector functions").

[remi]

The question should be the other way around:
Why are Xara Ltd. developing tools with ignoring the former and current hints of a lot of more experienced Webexperts? What is it good for, if a product is of no use for including in a professional workflow?

Not your customers have to argue, why they work with other tools. Instead, Xara Ltd. has to think over the valid critiques of some forum members and has to change their product. Otherwise Xara Ltd. will see no further hints and - what they need much more - our money. It's easy, isn't it?

As I said, I'm in hope to see some of the discussed changes in two years. Please start with the work just today.

Regards,
Remi

[kingonlineuk]

Originally Posted by Charles Moir
“...having H1 tags, this is not something we'd offer.
“Why would we start complicating the product with some technical gubbins that few people will understand, especially when it has no actual benefit?”

What a depressing read: especially from the Xara end of things. I am surprised that Charles and his developers question the need for headings and styles, as it was Charles’s Impression Publisher of 15 years ago that introduced them to me.

The omission of styles and headings in both Xtreme and Web Designer is an error in judgement. The long-established conventions of web page construction, based on good practice and the various rules of W3C and WAI, indicate that not using headings and styles is bad practice. Any web designer not using headings does not understand basic web principles: headings are not optional if your page has text.

Headings and styles give web pages visual uniformity, and are worth their weight in pandas for how easy it is to make web sites, Word files, PDF files, sales brochures, dissertations or anything of worthwhile complexity look consistent from one page to another.

The heading tags are pleasingly basic in what they do and, as Word, Dreamweaver and plenty of other packages prove, it is easy to modify how headings look. However, it is the behind-the-scenes structural function of headings that makes them imperative. They give any electronic document aspects of structure which is essential for both visually intact and visually impaired users.

In a book or newspaper, you navigate quickly around a page as your eyes spot the headings because they use larger text and different colours. Your eyes are detecting the structure. Headings in Word and in web pages have exactly the same effect and, rather wonderfully, visually impaired people using screen readers can also use them to skip sections and navigate.
In enlightened times one would hope that new software would try to make good practice an instinctive thing, so that the unconvinced find themselves doing good things without necessarily realising. In this sense XWD has taken a backwards step, which is a shame, and I hope that all aspects of web accessibility leapfrog to the top of the development list.

The links below explain things in details.
References:
http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups...nib003460.hcsp
http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/headings
http://www.staffordshiremedia.co.uk/accessibility
http://www.accessibility-professiona.../accessibility
http://www.nomensa.com/resources/art...correctly.html
http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-fr...-toolbar.shtml

Coxover:” we are walking in circles.... And this irritates.”
Reply: absolutely, so stop arguing, admit you're wrong and fix it quick!!

[covoxer]

Reply: absolutely, so stop arguing,

I was never arguing - the only thing I was trying to do is to explain why it is this way. But if you don't like it, ok, that's fine, I'll never do this again. Though it will change nothing.

[ss-kalm]

@kingonlineuk

You seem to be confusing headings and styles ...... although I question the need for H1 etc. tags (please lets not rehash this again here), I do support the use of styles in the text editor. However, this is a text thing not a HTML thing. Charles never said that text styles will never be implemented.