Xtreme - Vector Design Edition

[geminiguy]

I love Xara the way it is, and the way it's going.
I would however love to see a blur tool added, such as Inkscape has... that would be awesome
And this thread is good Paul... it's good for all of us to revisit these types of discussions now and then. It helps Xara/Magix and the devs keep in touch with users and what they want and feel... And, it also allows them to keep us informed and knowing the harsh realities which exist in this business
But let's all please remember that being a software developer is extremely hard work and is often a thankless profession... and they are just as defensive and protective of their work as one is of a child... This type of work causes many to become very attached to the product....
It takes "a lot" of work to add even the simplest of features. It is a stressful job, and not everything always works exactly as planned on the first shot.
And just as has been made clear... the only way to please all the people all the time, would be to greatly increase cost on both ends.... And Xara's strategy from the beginning... was to put out a good software, at a reasonable cost, and they have kept to it, when they could have, at any given time... thrown the theory out the window and as a result lost the target market which Adobe and the likes will never see profit from... and that group is ever growing faster than the commercial end user Think of how many people out there would never even buy a graphics software, if Xara were not so reasonably priced.. They tapped the hidden market, pretty smart if you ask me.
If Adobe were just as smart, they would invest in a stripped down version of each of their graphics software, bundle them up, sell them at a cost competitive with Xara.... but they won't... because they don't care about that market (which is basically most of us)
So I am extremely thankful, and perfectly happy with any direction they choose as far as development goes... as long as it retains the original end user cost theory

[geminiguy]

I must extend my apologies. I was just made aware that there are blur tools in Xtreme 4...... sorry

I am still just getting into experimenting with it and have not yet exhausted my play-time with the extrude tool

sorry for over-looking that.... and Thanks.... very cool

[JokeArtist]

My point is that popular as the html generation is, pushing it further is not a cheap development option and it exists in a crowded market with very capable competitors

Very good point. I mean there's so many free things out there that they're just no point trying to compete. Stick to what you're good at!

[covoxer]

Alex,

We aren't enemy for Xara at all )

I say you are dreamers, not enemies. I don't speak with enemies, I fight them.

this forum is only one public source for you as developer to learn their wishes, expects, to get feedbacks, and to catch all bugs or glitches with your software.

True. And that's what I'm doing here most of the time, plus trying to help as much as I can if someone have any problems. Haven't you noticed this?
But as a person, I cannot silently watch as others don't understand some pretty obvious things. It's a human right to express a personal opinion. Isn't it?
All I say here is not a position of the developer, this all is well known to everyone present. But from my point of view, some people here are either ignoring, or not understanding these basic things. So I just had to make it straight.
You have a right to agree or disagree.
Saying this, I'm ready for debate. I have clearly explained my conclusion. Would you like to prove it wrong?

[covoxer]

Very good point. I mean there's so many free things out there that they're just no point trying to compete.

Oh really? Show me one that allows you to create your webpage from the scratch.
There is no real competition to the Xtreme html export. It openes a new market. If I was Steve Jobs, I would call it Enabling Technology.
So the point is really bad. Xtreme does not compete with existing html software, it sells to people who can't create their pages othervise. So it's a perfect market.

[Josie]

I love to do everything in Xara if possible, even when it's only a workaround solution. In graphic design work, when I create for example short brochures, Illustrator would be too little while InDesign would be too little and too much at the same time. I miss something like FreeHand: a tool for a creative design that also handles multipage documents. Xara already came close to that. From my point of view, two things make it "less Pro":
1) lack of CMYK mode (as conversion from RGB takes place only during PDF generation) which means that with photos you don't have some things under control (UCR/GCR...)
2) some advanced text functionality: paragraph styles including word and letter spacing for smooth typesetting; named formatting styles; Find/Replace feature; and, please!, OpenType support to get the ability to use all characters (incl. alternates, small caps, etc.) and features of fonts and not only the standard 256 letters.
Summary: the current development direction is OK for me.

[ankhor]

But the untapped market out there? That is the future of Xara - what is going to keep it afloat. Xara simply can't afford to go in any other direction. A full WYSIWYG web editor with all of Xara's other abilities will bring in the money to give you your additional vector tools.

Well it would be fully intergrated so it would be easy to make websites that way. and many people who have no clue about html and the other flavours,
could make a website kinda simple, which they would love, that is why blogging is such a big thing now. So maybe you have a point here.

[jeb]

Still an interesting thread!

"A LOT of people want Xara to expand the wysiwyg website capabilities for the software, yet criticise the notion of developing the vector capabilities." - Paul

Paul, I don't think that is what has been said here - I certainly didn't intend to leave that impression.

When it gets into the "nuts and bolts" of the program, I don't know if what I am doing uses vectors or not - all I know is that I can do some very complex things fairly easy and fast - and then save as a web site.

I don't understand why it must be one or the other - and not both. Someone may never do a web site but if the ability comes with the program, why take it out.

I certainly don't expect Xara to forego what got them here - the vector side. Nor would I ask them to do that. But again, why take anything out?

I don't know what is involved in taking the web side to the next level and make it a full blown web editor, what resources it would take, but I do believe that the available market for a product that can do all that Xara can do would not be "just one more" in the market place.

And ad sort of like - "Oh, BTW, just Look at all the other neat things you can do with the program!", would be a winner, I think.

All of us here are using Xara programs for one or more simple reasons - it's better, it's faster, it's cheaper - or a combo of these. Most all here have other programs - but they use Xara for a reason. I don't understand someone, just because a few disagree with them, would want to go use another program IF Xara does what they want it to do.

More vector side items for the Design Pros here - absolutely. More web goodies for those that would like them - absolutely.

If - and I say IF - there is only enough $$$ to do one or the other right now? A tough call for Xara. But I do believe, looking at the big picture, that the web side will product the income - faster - to then be able to expand on the vector side.

I make that statement based upon 3 things -

1- someone posted here that they had not purchased a Xara product since verson 2 - this person certainly has not contribuited to helping push the product forward and, it appears, will not do so until Xara is able to come out with another industry leading breakthrough - not likely to happen.

2- Xara has had the industry leading vector program in the market for several years now and yet not that many of the Pros out there have purchased the program - or even know about the program.

3- A Web Editor with all the other abilities of Xara will, IMHO, be a solid winner in the marketplace.

That winner could then fuel the total program - again, a win/win for all.

Take care, jb

[Bob Hahn]

Xara can still improve it's vector tools - but I don't see the logic in removing current functions/abilities in order to create separate issues. I think what they've added is good, and I'm sure because of what they added has attracted new users. Which is good.

I guess Xara has limited resources, and they had to choose which way to go. Either keep current base users happy by improving vector tools, or create/attract a larger user base by creating new functions.

I think what Xara really needs to focus on next is - if they want to compare Xtreme's speed to Adobe Illustrator, they need to have a version of Xtreme for Mac. Forget the thinking that Mac users will use bootcamp or parallels, because they won't. They'll use what works and that's Adobe.

By getting more Xtreme users and they'll be able to create the Xtreme you want.

[tonylondon]

LOL - I'm not sure if everyone agrees.. ;-)

Paul

I, have found this thread useful. So have a lot of others, to judge by the length of the thread. It is reassuring to know that I am not alone in my views. So thanks

Tony