Xara Designer Pro+ questions about desktop publishing and note taking features

[Acorn]

Ben, thank you for the history. I have survived most of it myself.

You seem to have thrown away the synergy of hyperlinking across multiple documents.
With Affinity, you will need to 'publish' every document and then work out what its link path will be.
Both Xara and Serif (noting your typo) handle internal links adequately but external ones require a collection area (c.f., the Internet).
With Obsidian (and MarkDown) the connectivity is down to the folder location (even across Vaults).

Using images and PDFs squander their information value. Most file formats wither. .txt (a.k.a., .md), UTF-8 et al, ASCII & extended and system flavours of EBCDIC all have simple (Regex) convertors, which I have had to use all of my career(s). Anything proprietary and you are out of the picture.

You were rather emphatic that your images were in an external file store.
In Obsidian, I can quickly link to any image with ![[...]]. If it is a mix of text, vector and graphic then I can link to its .XAR (or other file extension with [File](file:///I:\TG\2023.xar), edit that and export it as an image back to the required location.

Why stop at pictures?
With Boxy SVG, which I use, I can add in images, vectors, text and animate them.
The SVG format payload is quite light too and readily embedded into a MarkDown file.

Acorn

[Ben Wiens]

You seem to have thrown away the synergy of hyperlinking across multiple documents. With Affinity, you will need to 'publish' every document and then work out what its link path will be. Both Xara and Serif (noting your typo) handle internal links adequately but external ones require a collection area (c.f., the Internet). With Obsidian (and MarkDown) the connectivity is down to the folder location (even across Vaults).

Text based vs binary formatting
Looking at history, there seems to have been two streams of formatting for output, either for the screen, or for printing, on computers. MarkDown is similar to html and Wikitext coding. Back in 1981 one of my brothers published his book "How To Design Your Very Own Solar Home" on a 6809 Southwest Technical Products computer using Flex and a type of crude desktop publishing program similar to NROFF which used text coding because people didn't even have monitors then and the only input was a keyboard. But I was not exposed to this at all having got my first computer in 1990 when all the programs I had like AutoCAD, Word, Microsoft Access, CorelDRAW, and Ventura Publisher were now completely binary. So I'm guessing that still, high level document workflows like desktop publishing and Computer Aided Design are binary so only using text based formatting for all work flows is not practical.

What are notes going to be used for?
I think the bigger question is, what do I and other people want to collect notes for? Just for knowledge? The original goal of the Zettelkasten note taking system was to collect information for writing reports, papers, books, public speaking, and movies. In the field of computer aided drawing, blocks are created which are common items that can be inserted into drawings to save time. These blocks need to be created in the same computer format as the main drawing so they are compatible. So I think the same rational could be used when deciding which program to use for creating notes. I want to create notes in a program that uses the same file formats as I will use in the final publication.

The reason for program suites
The Affinity Publisher, Designer, Photo program suite is a great program for publishing a book in, is low cost, is considered very user friendly, and has small file sizes. Program suites were developed because that is the only way to ensure compatibility of three different file types. Can I use the Affinity Designer, Photo files in Obsidian? No. Can I use the svg and png files that are used on Obsidian in Affinity Publisher? Not really. So in my note taking I want to collect files that I can use directly in Affinity Publisher. So it makes sense to use Affinity Publisher for notes, letters, reports, user manuals, papers, pamphlets, and books. I save time only learning one program instead of many and save time by recycling material in the same format.

A super digital Zettelkasten system
In the original Zettelkasten system, there were three work flows. (1) Taking notes on the cards. (2) Typing the book draft from information on the cards. (3) Typesetting the book. In the super digital Zettelkasten system we create the pieces for the book digitally in the notes over time, then combine them together into letters, reports, user manuals, papers, pamphlets, and books without having to retype or recreate a lot of the text and images by using the same program. My training is in manufacturing engineering and this sounds like an efficient work flow. I think this is even more integration of work flows than Sarif even dreamed of when they decided to create the Affinity suite or than generally happens in the industry. In fact experts keep telling me that there should be more steps. But why? I think in the traditional publishing industry there is a great division of labor and many people are involved each doing a small part but this was the way letters were written in companies many years ago with many people involved in writing a single letter, now the executives just do it all themselves on a computer.

New Steps
In the fascinating 1992 Australian movie "Strictly Ballroom" there are those who want to do the "New Steps" while the traditionalist wanted to do the "Accepted Steps" But New Steps are only good if they make sense. So what do you think, do these "New Steps" make sense? Does using a desktop publishing program for notes lack some features of established note taking systems? Yes? But they could be added.

[Acorn]

Ben, I am finding you are rather quick in conflating concepts.

MarkDown and WikiText are out of the same stable and a far cry from HTML. A wiki link [[...]] differs from an HTML hyperlink as it will create a placemarker for you to go back at any time and fill in the dots. In HTML, you would get a file not found or similar (404 error). MarkDown is human-readable, not binary, so with nothing other than its printout or a simple text editor, you could make sense of it. In comparison, HTML has a lot of scaffolding and requires a browser (viewer) to understand it more clearly. HTML has its own syntax and so a browser is not always an editor. Yes you can use a text editor but it is onerous.

Wikis are content management systems whereas MarkDown is focused on the content and HTML is a high mix of semantics and syntax, usually swamping content. MarkDown is the closest to pure text with a lighter sprinkling of syntax that allows easy conversion to HTML, allowing for all the formatting and styling without the need to learn a language or use a specialist tool.

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You mention three file types. I can only guess these are text, raster and vector.
SVG is a file format that handles and edits text and vector and manipulates raster to a limited extent.

Program suites were developed because that is the only way to ensure compatibility of three different file types.
Can I use the Affinity Designer, Photo files in Obsidian? No.
Can I use the svg and png files that are used on Obsidian in Affinity Publisher? Not really.

Program suites use concepts like object linking and embedding to switch modes into different editor programs. Basically, replacing the tedium of copy & pasting provided you have the right convertors built-in.
APhoto files (proprietary) into Obsidian -> No but a raster version Yes and a link back into the AD Photo program of the master file. So AD and Obsidian have an interchange mechanism.
Obsidian SVG -> APub - Yes; Obsidian PNG -> APub - yes. Both SVG and PNG are open source and AD has convertors for Import and Export.

You want a mix of Text, Raster and Vector all in the same file. Well you could with an SVG but MarkDown handles Text and embeds Vector (SVG) and, better, links in Raster & Vector (SVG).

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What confuses me is Obsidian readily capable and can hold all types of digital content (your "blocks") and mash them in countless combinations:

• You can embed a block into another.
• You can collation any number of block into a book, PDF or HTML.
• You can choose you own native editor for Raster (e.g., APhoto or Xara or Adobe CS).
• You can choose your native editor for Vector similarly.

What Affinity does not do is present a cohesive content management or retrieval system and you will be reliant on your tacit knowledge that necessarily has a shelf life.
Obsidian is extensible and handles "New Steps" while Affinity is definitely "Accepted Steps" so you will always be dancing a jig to its tune.

Other Wikis are available and we still use keyboards on computers for a number of reasons.
Thank you for helping me reaffirm my Weltanshauung.

Acorn

[Jonopen]

@Acorn Obsidian sounds interesting. Before downloading and trying it, are there any examples of where it's being used, you can point me to? I don't have a specific need right now, but there might be something in the future. Thanks.

[handrawn]

@Ben Wiens - and anyone else reading

it has now been officially announced that affinity is being sold to canva:

https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/pre...nva-statement/

you may wish to take this onboard...

[jaydear]

...it has now been officially announced that affinity is being sold to canva...

Maybe they'll put a really good bitmap to vector utility in Affinity Photo now but more likely it'll be a separate app

[Acorn]

@Acorn Obsidian sounds interesting. Before downloading and trying it, are there any examples of where it's being used, you can point me to? I don't have a specific need right now, but there might be something in the future. Thanks.

Jon, here's a heavy example: https://publish.obsidian.md/myaiba/

Most Obsidian Vaults are running locally. There is no need to publish if it if you your own use.

Another example - https://notes.philoserf.com/Index.

Hope the offers a flavour of its richness.

Acorn

[Jonopen]

Jon, here's a heavy example: https://publish.obsidian.md/myaiba/

Most Obsidian Vaults are running locally. There is no need to publish if it if you your own use.

Another example - https://notes.philoserf.com/Index.

Hope the offers a flavour of its richness.

Acorn

Thanks for those links Acorn, I'll take a good look.

For the past few years I've been using mind maps (SimpleMind) to keep track of text notes, ideas, links and other bits and pieces, but it's good to look at alternatives.

[Acorn]

Thanks for those links Acorn, I'll take a good look.
For the past few years I've been using mind maps (SimpleMind) to keep track of text notes, ideas, links and other bits and pieces, but it's good to look at alternatives.

Jon, I did all my Master's notes will handrawn Mindmaps and had been using Buzan's approach for over a decade before.
I bought into MindManager for about 10 years but it palls in comparison to drafting a MM by hand.
That got expensive so I moved to FreeMind, stable v1.0.1 and bet2 2 v1.1.0, running under Java for nigh on universal.

In between I discovered TiddlyWikis and got hooked on Markdown and eventually found Obsidian.

Acorn

[bwood]

Thanks for those links Acorn, I'll take a good look.

For the past few years I've been using mind maps (SimpleMind) to keep track of text notes, ideas, links and other bits and pieces, but it's good to look at alternatives.

Acorn converted me Jon. Love it. Passwords, notes, very fast search. It’s also free. Cross platforms is where they make a buck, but you can always make a vault and open it on another rig. I really like it. I do still use google keep as a cross platform, but Obsidian is the best I’ve seen.