Is there any way to get Xara (Designer Pro X18) to be more accurate?

[shiphen]

Hello

Is there any way to get Xara (Designer Pro X18) to be more accurate?

My problem is every time I rotate an object by say 90° (either by typing in "90" into the Angle of Selection, or by selecting the shape and the manually dragging the rotation control whilst holding down Control) it no longer fits EXACTLY on the grid. Every point keeps being very nearly on the grid but just off...


Background
I am using Xara to do CAD (something that I am aware that it isn't really designed for!)

I have parts that are about 1mm thick by about say 5mm long. I am working to an accuracy of about 1/8th of mm.
I am using the grid a lot for snapping. I like having a large number of parts on a page.


Page size: A1
Page Units: Millimetres
The grid is:
Major spacing: 1mm
Number of subdivisions: 8

Scaling: None
Nudge size: 0.125mm


Thanks

J

[handrawn]

not sure if it will fix your issue - but the accuracy of xara in general terms is limited by windows settings - ie the more decimal places you set windows to, the more accurate xara wiil be

[wizard509]

Don't know, it seems to work OK for me, you might try changing the grid size to a smaller grid and see if that helps I assume you have snap to grid selected.

[Acorn]

@shipen, I have created your template settings.
I set up a 5x1mm box and put it at (60, 60).
I duplicated it 7 times and the last box ended up at (61, 59)

I Cloned and rotated 90deg and repeated.
Identical.

If you use Line Widths the box size will change and rotation will appear off.
Use Line Width 0 (Not the same as None!).

To keep the sizes accurate, use an Inner Contour, 0.01mm, 1 step, instead.
You will also need to reset Flat Transparency, 100%.

Change your Windows number accuracy to 3.



Acorn

[shiphen]

If you use Line Widths the box size will change and rotation will appear off.
Use Line Width 0 (Not the same as None!).

To keep the sizes accurate, use an Inner Contour, 0.01mm, 1 step, instead.
You will also need to reset Flat Transparency, 100%.

Change your Windows number accuracy to 3.



Acorn

Yikes - To be honest, I don't understand bearly any of that.
But I am listening hard because you always seem to know your stuff.


1. OK,yes I know how to set Line Width to zero. (Does that really make any difference - seems unlikely...)

2. The box size only changes if Scale Line Widths is ticked. I have learned my lesson and never have that ticked.

3. What is "Inner Contour" - where do I find that?

4. Re my Windows number, did the following:
Control Panel ==> Region ==> Additional Settings ==> No. of digits after decimal ==> changed from "2" to "3" (But where will this change appear? Will I need to reboot Windows? [version10 x64])

5. I use transparency a LOT, as it help catch a lot of errors visually. Why would that be relevant?


Heres is a very simple example of my problem: I set Snap to Grid on and create a small rectangle (1.0 x 3.0mm). And I make sure the line thickness is zero.

If I hit right arrow say 200 times the rectangle will be substantially off it's grid when it arrives.







Btw, there is also a sort of a bug where by although within Options I can set the Nudge size to be "0.125" (rather than "0.1") and although this will give me my desired 8 nudges to move 1 major spacing of the Grid, if I close Xara and re-open it, Xara will revert to giving me a Nudge size of "0.1" with 10 nudges per Major spacing.

This "feature" is quite irritating because my subdivisions is 8 rather then 10. And so if the Nudge size is back to 0.1mm then each nudge of 0.1mm no longer matches the 0.125mm of my grid (which has 8 divisions per 1mm of Major Spacing...

With thanks

J

[handrawn]

3. What is "Inner Contour" - where do I find that?

acorn is suggesting you use the contour tool to create an inner countour 'outline' which will not stand proud of the object in the way an actual outline does in xara; in xara outlines are always half in half out of the object, that is the object only extends to the middle of the outline, there is no way to make the outline wholly within [or wholly without] of the object

4. Re my Windows number, did the following:
Control Panel ==> Region ==> Additional Settings ==> No. of digits after decimal ==> changed from "2" to "3" (But where will this change appear? Will I need to reboot Windows? [version10 x64])

it will become active straight away, although you may need to restart xara if it was open - you can check by creating an object in xara to 3 decimal places and if the size on the info bar is reported to 3 decimal places when done its ok

5. I use transparency a LOT, as it help catch a lot of errors visually. Why would that be relevant?

I'd say uniform [ie flat] transprency is fine as acorn said - non uniform trsansparency may just make things awkward visually; it might even have an effect on snapping, but i am not sure of that

Heres is a very simple example of my problem: ...............................

..............there is also a sort of a bug where by although within Options I can set the Nudge size to be "0.125" (rather than "0.1") and although this will give me my desired 8 nudges to move 1 major spacing of the Grid, if I close Xara and re-open it, Xara will revert to giving me a Nudge size of "0.1" with 10 nudges per Major spacing.

This "feature" is quite irritating because my subdivisions is 8 rather then 10. And so if the Nudge size is back to 0.1mm then each nudge of 0.1mm no longer matches the 0.125mm of my grid (which has 8 divisions per 1mm of Major Spacing...

With thanks

J

xara is not a CAD program - you already know this, you mentioned it

you are never going to get this sort of accuracy without working to a lot of decimal places in mm units, and may not even then because of rounding - if you want that sort of accuracy you have to work in millipoints in xara, but this you may not be prepared to do

A millipoint is 1/1,000th of a point (1/72,000th of an inch). All Designer Pro+ measurements are stored internally in millipoints and then converted to the appropriate units when displayed. Dimensions other than millipoints are rounded if necessary. If you want to work in exact units without rounding, display measurements in millipoints.

[handrawn]

Nudging is not affected by either magnetic or grid snapping

this probably relevant too - but no time to check the implications, sorry

as far as the nudge size resetting goes I seem to remember the nudge size does not hold to more than 1 decimal place, this has come up before, but this is from memory...

[shiphen]

No, I think the using the Contour to only draw objects on their insides will just cause confusion by creating an apparent zig-zag when really what you have is a straight line.

i.e. This sort of thing:
Attachment 130080

Note that it is crucial for "Scale Line Widths" to NOT be ticked, otherwise for some bizarre reason Xara will include the width of the line as part of the size of the shape.


Yes, I know that Nudge size is set separately from the Grid size.
I don't dare change my Grid size at this point or it will screw up my drawings. [But it is irritating that my Nudge size fails to stick if I close Xara so I have to keep editing it manually every time I re-open Xara if I want my Nudge size to match my Grid size of 1/8th mm.]

Is this where might I hope to see the 3 decimal places?

[Acorn]

shipen, I am sorry you seem to have problems.

In Options > Units, create a new unit - Name: Eighths, Abbr: mei; set 1 Eighths equivalent to 0.125mm.
Set Page Units to Eighths and Apply.

In Options > General, set Nudg size, Suplication distances X and Y all to 1mei and Apply.

In Options > Grid and Ruler, set Major Spacing to 1mm or 8mei and 8 sub-divisions.
Set Origin (0, 0) for X and Y both to 0mei and Apply.

Set Line Widths to 0px.

All operations on a 4x1mm (32x8mei), 0px LW Box are solid.

The only downside is if you are dimensioning something you need to include mm or be quick enough to multiply by eight in your head (double-double-double).

My small test file is here: shipen - A1.xar

If you Preview and Download PDF form it, the PDF at 6400% is pin sharp and accurate.
I have closed and re-open the file many times and all settings stick

Acorn

[handrawn]

nice work around acorn - never tried creating new units, but it looks good if avoids [fractions] decimals and rounding

No, I think the using the Contour to only draw objects on their insides will just cause confusion by creating an apparent zig-zag when really what you have is a straight line.

i.e. This sort of thing:
Attachment 130080

your attachment is invalid, without which I can't comment on what you say about zig-zags - but acorn's latest post uses 0px again, so contours may be academic now