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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Thumbs down Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    Hi, I'm a longtime Xara user (since 2009). I recently updated from Xara 17 to 18, and have a couple issues.

    Parallel installs?
    (I don't know if this is a "feature or a bug" in developer talk, but I consider it a bug...)

    1st) When I updated, an entire new instance of Xara was installed on my machine, instead of just updating the current installation.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    • This means I have to go through various tasks, like replacing my startup and taskbar shortcuts, and try to find any other customizations I've made in 17 and copy them over to 18 (custom templates, the backups folder contents...
    • is there anything else? Do I need to do this with fonts or anything? If so--where are these locations I need to copy over?).



    Do I delete the old one?
    After I get everything copied over and settled, can I uninstall the old install? Was there a way I could have installed this so it just upgraded the 17 version? It seems there's too much nonsense that goes along with this type of update--please consider improvements here (unless I'm the only one who feels this way, then disregard I suppose)

    Icons Too Small
    2nd) After updating, the icons in some views are too small to be useful to me.

    See this screenshot of the 17 and 18 versions of Xara side-by-side:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    • This is a real UI/UX problem for me, even a "deal breaker" with some apps (I rarely use GIMP anymore because they can't seem to get their Icon sizing to work for various viewport resolutions, and it makes it difficult to use those apps.)
    • I primarily use a 4K monitor, which may have something to do with this, although I don't understand why the icons look okay on 17 and then are so small in 18. Further, when it comes to a pro graphics app, I would think a lot of your clientele have hi-res monitors.



    Here's that screenshot in 2 parts--seems this forum software doesn't like the size of the original image:

    vsn 17 side:
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    vsn 18 side:
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    • If there is a setting I can manipulate to make the icons useful again, please let me know.
    • Otherwise, please fix this soon and issue an update (I'm being warned I have 5 days left on my upgrade period, so do I try to "downgrade" to 17 for the better UX, or do I hope you fix this in time?)


    I've chosen Xara over Adobe or any other vector design app (now that I think of it, I've even made websites and animations using Xara) because it's intuitive and provides excellent value. So I hope you can fix some of these issues.

    Thanks for any help

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    SW England
    Posts
    14,154

    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    Parallel Install & Older Version Delete
    - You are gaining an extra version so keep both.
    - Key one is Local Designs gallery > Download All.
    - Hint: change the Backup folder location.
    Sizing
    - Others will probably advise this is a Windows setting.

    Acorn

    P.S. Moved Thread to Dear Xara forum.
    Acorn - installed and active Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+, XDPX, XWD Premium 15 & 12, XPGD10, X3D7, Xara Xtreme 5, back through time (to CC's Artworks).
    Raise software faults with MagiXara: http://support.magix.net/; if Cloud+/Pro+: https://xara.com/contact-us/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    19,366

    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    When I updated, an entire new instance of Xara was installed on my machine, instead of just updating the current installation
    this as always happened when moving from one version to another; this time the version changed under the update service, rather than manual install, but it was aways so with a version change

    I agree with acorn - keep the previous version - at least until you know the changes and are happy with them

    what 4K monitor do you have - mine is a 24 inch cintiq; unless I am doing detailed drawing I use the windows recommended settings for it in display settings

    have you changed the windows 10 settings in xara program properties [right click program icon, compatability tab] - if so you may need to reset them for the new xara version now that it supports 4K resolution when the previous version did not by going back to default and tweaking from there as necessary
    -------------------------------
    Wyrd bi ful ard

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    8

    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    Quote Originally Posted by Acorn View Post
    Parallel Install & Older Version Delete
    - You are gaining an extra version so keep both.
    I really don't want 2 versions of a software platform on my machine. Just the one I'll be using. I don't think of this as a "bonus" to have apparently obsolete files filling my hard drives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acorn View Post
    - Key one is Local Designs gallery > Download All.
    I right-clicked on each folder and chose "download all".

    Quote Originally Posted by Acorn View Post
    - Hint: change the Backup folder location.
    I don't want to change the backup location from the default. I would rather move the contents of the old default folder into the current default folder. (This is starting to sound like a "User Story" from where I work as a software developer; "As a User, I want...")

    It would be preferable if the software architects didn't make these things version-specific--i.e.; make the default backup directory be {User}/appdata/Xara/backup instead of {User}/appdata/Xara/FlavorOfTheWeekVersionedDirectoryNumber18/backup. Then the user wouldn't have to worry about any of this, and the UX would be much improved for future updates (and then there would be fewer bad "upgrade" experiences punishing users who then decide it's not worth it to pay for Xara software due to how much work they have to do every update).


    Quote Originally Posted by Acorn View Post
    Sizing
    - Others will probably advise this is a Windows setting.
    So why do the icons look appropriately sized in the vsn.17 and unusably sized in the vsn.18 app, both apps opened side-by-side simultaneously on the same Windows machine?

    vsn 17 icons
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    vsn 18 icons
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    Others can tell me it's a windows setting, but until they demonstrate which exact setting and how adjusting it makes just the xara vsn.18 icons the appropriate size (as opposed to making every icon in every app suddenly too large), then I'm skeptical of this notion.


    ***********

    I'm thinking I need to "downgrade" to vsn. 17--as I had no complaints for this forum then. In light of what Handrawn mentioned about this being installed via the update service instead of a stand-alone install, it reminds me that it should be easy to just uninstall the new version and I'll be left with the vsn. 17. Hopefully no issues with this process and I can forget about all these questions and problems with an "upgrade".

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    London
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    661

    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    I have Pro X v16.3, v17.0 and v18.0 installed on a 24inch 4k Dell AIO with 150% scale-up.

    The icon issue in the dialogue box to which you refer, I do not believe, will be resolved by any Windows10 setting, I have exactly the same issue - v18.0 introduced HiDPI and I understand the difference we see maybe related to the application not seeing ALL the icon sizes required by Windows to support HiDPI. The full set of icons would have 16px, 32px, 48px, 64px, & 256px bitmaps. The original HiDPI beta tests did identify a few similar issues that were fixed before release. Could be completely wrong here, but experience from building apps to run with 4k scaling suggests this could be the root cause.

    That said, I can live with the issue and for me v18.0 with HiDPI support is a solid upgrade from v17.

    Gary

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    Quote Originally Posted by DesignerRants View Post
    I'm thinking I need to "downgrade" to vsn. 17--as I had no complaints for this forum then. In light of what Handrawn mentioned about this being installed via the update service instead of a stand-alone install, it reminds me that it should be easy to just uninstall the new version and I'll be left with the vsn. 17. Hopefully no issues with this process and I can forget about all these questions and problems with an "upgrade".
    ironically , a manual update is easy to uninstall; you may not find an update through the update service so easy...

    can't see an issue with more than one version installed myself - those who provide support on lots of versions have lots of versions installed
    -------------------------------
    Wyrd bi ful ard

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    8

    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    This is a much more satisfying explanation, and makes sense as I've ran into this issue of providing the various sizes of bit maps for each icon or favicon for web apps. And I WAS thinking the menus looked a little higher res in 18, which is nice. But I didn't have an issue with 17, it seemed to scale up fine on my monitor. I'd rather have the solid UI than the tiny click targets and invisible icons. At least the tool tips still work. I'll probably just go back to 17, hopefully it's not difficult to uninstall 18, as handrawn mentioned it could be. I dislike cluttering my OS with different versions installs unless I need to. Maybe I'll try again in a year or two if they get the adaptation to hi DPI ironed out (GIMP still hasn't several years after their big UI redesign, but they're also free software, so maybe that's a reason... )

    IMO, graphics and content creation platforms have UIs packed with tiny icons and switches. If they're too small they're unusable. Maybe I'm an edge case since apparently not enough people have complained to GIMP to get them to fix their nonsense. Thanks for the idea on the icons being an oversight of a hi DPI support rollout, makes sense.

  8. #8
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    UK
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    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    ok - fwiw everything UI is too small on my cintiq at it's native resolution [EDIT - without the windows scaling Applied] - if i wanted it otherwise i would have bought one at 32 inch [but had neither the cash or the space, nor thought it cost effective ]
    -------------------------------
    Wyrd bi ful ard

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    8

    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    ironically , a manual update is easy to uninstall; you may not find an update through the update service so easy...

    can't see an issue with more than one version installed myself - those who provide support on lots of versions have lots of versions installed
    I'll give it a go next time I use it, hopefully it's not dug in like a tick. I actually think it gave me the option of removing it because it kept promoting me to update even after I had, so I thought maybe it was another service pack or something and tried to install again, but it was the same download and so it asked if I wanted to uninstall. Now, maybe that uninstalls everything. I dunno. Will find out soon.

    As far as multiple versions, I don't like. Not unless I have to (there's been some cases, but that was usually for testing backward compatibility, for work). With all other software, just give me a single stable version.

    My monitor is part of my Lenovo p73 laptop, fyi. I think it's supposed to be fancy, I remember opting for something like (can't remember name of company that has color codes for paints and everything) color calibration? And it's exactly twice the resolution of a 1080px monitor as a 1920 x 1080 image fills exactly one quadrant of the monitor, which is what I think 4k is? And that has been my hi res monitor expert opinion.

    Thanks for the info.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Update 18 UI/UX Problem: Icon Sizes too small on 4K monitor

    Right, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but on your cintiq everything is too small --together--. You don't have some icons too small, some much smaller than that even, maybe some too large?... It can all be scaled up by windows together, appropriately. It's the inconsistency that ruins the UX for me.

 

 

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