When a List is NOT a list.

[Boy]

Rob-Xar wrote in another thread, "Let's wipe the slate clean here and get things done."

Both TG-ers and Xara staff seem to have past issues to gripe about but perhaps it would be good for all of us to get over it and give ourselves and the Xara devs under Rob's new leadership a fair chance to develop a constructive working relationship.

[gwpriester]

Rob - I take your point. All I posted here in Dear Xara a forum for feature requests and bug reports is:

I was trying to add some text to a piece I was writing in Pro+ in which I was referring to A. Smith, which is how a friend refers to herself.

Except Pro+ took the liberty of assuming the A. was part of a numbered list starting with A. and would not let me override this formatting.

And it is very frustrating when I encounter something like this.

[Rob-Xar]

Exactly and nothing against you Gary. I get your point, I'll investigate

[Acorn]

@All, there is still benefit from this Thread; however viewed by different parties.

Xara thinks that having a point-to-point channel using an Intercom Conversation for Xara Cloud/Pro+ and Xara Desktop Support for Magix versions is best for it.
Most companies would fall for this as a 'bitch fest' can then be hidden away.

Yet Xara then extols TalkGraphics in its products as its 'Online forum' where forum is the key word.
Forums allow debate, and yes, bitch fests, but, importantly, wider exposure.

The issue here is @handrawn is not a Xara DTP fan and @gwpriester has much more practice. Both has been frustrated in their DTP experience.

The PDF help Manual describes how a List can be ended:

To finish entering a bulleted list, hit return on the end of the last bullet and then immediately hit return again on the new bulleted line. This removes the last empty bulleted line and allows you to start entering normal text again. Or you can just turn off the list button on the InfoBar

This is fine but in Gary's case he had two things going on a List continuation he didn't want and a List in the first place.

For each of a Text Line, Text Column and Text Area, the proper thing to do is notice the List is created immediately following a space after one of the following:

• 1., A., a., I., i., 1), A), a), I), i)

==> There is a immediate added indent and if you are a touch typist, unlike me, it stands out.
It's immediate remedy is Ctrl+Z.
An historic List removal is just unticking the List button.
In extremis, use Ctrl+Space, if you can remember.

@Rob-Xar - there is nothing to fix other than updating the Help documentation.

I would prefer thinking and debate around:

• CSS Styling Lists - https://www.w3schools.com/CSS/tryit....style-type_all
• Xara HTML Filter rendering aria-aware HTML lists.

Acorn

[DanFelix]

I was trying to add some text to a piece I was writing in Pro+ in which I was referring to A. Smith, which is how a friend refers to herself.

Except Pro+ took the liberty of assuming the A. was part of a numbered list starting with A. and would not let me override this formatting.

Try a Hard Space after the period. Type capital A, then a period, then a Ctrl-Spacebar, then Smith.

[gwpriester]

Try a Hard Space after the period. Type capital A, then a period, then a Ctrl-Spacebar, then Smith.

My head is spinning, Dan.

Steve - I have produced 9 paperback books in Designer Pro. Bottom line, I know how to make the program do the things I was trained to do and do the things I did when I was in advertising and then graphic design. So while I complain about missing features, it's a matter getting the tools to do what I want them to do.

Of the 5 books I have produced for Mary, 3 have won best in category in the New Mexico - Arizona Book Awards, and one for another author got a best cover design in the same contest.

[Acorn]

In extremis, use Ctrl+Space, if you can remember.

Try a Hard Space after the period. Type capital A, then a period, then a Ctrl-Spacebar, then Smith.

Snap!

Acorn

[Boy]

In extremis, use Ctrl+Space,

Easy enough!

[handrawn]

@Rob

ok I take the point too and i don't want to start off on the wrong foot with the newly and deservedly promoted guy who might actually get thing done

I am a dinosaur, I think of xara designer as a vector graphics design program with added raster on the side

I don't think of Xara as a DTP program; I admire gary for what he does in that respect but, as acorn said, it is not for me

you may have read my thread about the loud beep that nearly csised me serious grief... https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...d-be-dangerous

I hope you don't think of this a s bitch-fest, it is serious; I am probably not the only one to use headphones whilst working; and what purpose does it serve? it's not what egg suggested - this is a specific that happens only when the cancel button is clicked [autobackup off], it is not random screech

how about replacing the magix filters that were lost in pro+ - whilst deformation liquid colour is not as powerful as affinity liquid persona it did a good job a lot of the time, and as an animator who does a lot of deformation animation it came in very useful; of course, a xara 'liquid persona' would be even better... expression 3 had this 18 years ago

enough hijacking gary's thread

final point - you did not explain why the behavior is different in text line and text area, but then it is only a curiosity to me; still if yoiu aint curious you don't learn as the gender neutral thespian said to the pantheologist

[pauland]

I'm going to be extremely blunt here. This is exactly why Xara hates going through TalkGraphics. This isn't unique behaviour to Xara, this isn't something special. This is standard behaviour across desktop publishing apps and somehow you've turned this into a Xara hate bashing session, that we're trying to be too smart for our own good. It wouldn't surprise me that if we didn't turn this into a list, you'd be complaining about that as well. I genuinely don't believe we can do right by you.

I can get this fixed. One of my first initiatives is to collect a large number of minor tweaks, ui/ux improvements and bug fixes and get them finally sorted. Bugs that often are generally minor in scope and fall under the radar but overall together have a big impact on the experience of Xara. I get that you're frustrated, but for the love of god please work with me here to improve Xara, to make this process smooth. The more direct an issue is, the faster we can provide a solution.

I wouldn't expect a post like that from a professional product manager.

Attacking users on a personal level for "blunt" posts is not the way to go.

Let me help you.

"This isn't unique behaviour to Xara, this isn't something special. This is standard behaviour across desktop publishing apps.

We will fix this issue - thanks for bringing it to our attention"