XD16, and XD17 trial SVG import issue

[simsmj]

I have been using XD's SVG export and import features rather a lot recently, and I have been having several issues, but the most obvious one is this;
If I export a group or a single shape as SVG, then re-import that SVG it comes in 25% larger than the original shape.

This was in XD16. I just d/loaded the new XD17 as a 7-day demo and tried it, and it has the same issue. If I import the 1st SVG into another app,
it appears to be the correct size, but if I have that app re-export the SVG, and import it back into XD, it appears 25% larger.

Interestingly, I still have XD11 on my laptop so tried that. It imports its own SVG export at the same size. I had SVGKam (a CAM utility I've been working on) import the XD11 svg, and it showed the correct size, and its own re-export imported correctly back into XD11, albeit minus any colour.

So, what's going on? I was aware through 2019 of several updates to XD16, but they all seemed to differ in how to break SVG handling. But I do like the export selection option.

Attached is a xar file demonstrating the problem.

Mike

[Egg Bramhill]

Hello Mike, long time no see. From what I can make out it's the old 72ppi/96ppi issue (the 25% difference).
However I can't see why it should make a difference if your not exporting the page.

I tried to reproduce what your getting but can't.

If I export the attached as svg (Selected Only) it imports into Inkscape at the same size. If I save it as an svg in Inkscape (can't export it) and import it into the Xara file it comes in ALMOST the same size give or take 2 pixels.

[ss-kalm]

Ii think reading Mike's post he's saying if you export from Xara and immediately re-import into Xara it grows 25%. Almost as if it exports at 96 ppi and imports at 72 ppi. Although that should be 33% bigger (I think)!

[simsmj]

Hi, Egg, it's been a very long time. Yes, I suspected the 72/96px ratio too, but that must be an internal Xara thing because Xara exports its SVG specifying pt (points) as the unit. It doesn't permit you a choice. But unlike pixels, it is a real-world unit that is accepted the world over as 1/72 of an inch so there is no real room for ambiguity. XD16/17 cannot import its own SVG exports correctly, and 25% is a huge error. The issue is a bit more complicated because having imported the SVG-1 back into Xara, you can then export that 2nd image as SVG-2, and re-importing SVG-2 does NOT increase its size. Only the first re-import increased in size.

Also, though I took no screen shots, I imported the Xara SVG-1 into three different apps, and they all showed the counter at the correct size, and they all could re-export/save as their own SVG, and correctly re-import those without issue. Even if they had their own issues, (I'm still working on SVGKam ) Xara has a clear problem. The 72/96px/" shouldn't be relevant unless Xara invokes an erroneous conversion somewhere, but I find that hard to believe, as Xara's own internal unit is the millipoint, 1/72000", which is why it is brilliant for engineering drawings. And because it always exports in pt and never px, other apps importing them never get confused about sizing, which has been an issue dogging the maker community because pixel-based SVGs routinely confuse many precisely because the px isn't a clearly-defined real-world unit of measurement, and really has no business being treated like an engineering unit. And it's not helped when apps that can export/import SVGs often don't allow the user to choose the export unit, and they default to px.

Also, Hi, ss-kalm, it's nice that there are so many familiar names still around. And I was sad when I found out that Soquili is no longer with us. I peek in now and again, but whole years can go by in between.

Cheers, all.
Mike

[handrawn]

I looked at this with P&G16 - my experience was that the reimported svg was at a fixed size - that is it reimported at that same size even from a rexport of the object at a different size

it did not happen in XDP15.1

ther has been a change from 15 to 16/17 in that the program now allows you to export 'selection only' as opposed to 'whole page' [all objects] only - it may be linked to this, but obviously it is wrong [unless it is Xara doing something 'smart' for the web and screwing up the non-web yet again]

[simsmj]

Hi, handrawn!

P&G16 can re-import at the same size, it didn't change the size of the SVG-2 even after re-exporting it again, and importing it back in. Also P&G16 didn't initially have 'export selection only', that came in a later patch, which I liked, but it was upsetting my exports that I had just got used to, so I re-installed the earlier version to maintain consistency, and my update facility has expired. I can opt back in before Friday and get P&G17 at a well-reduced cost, and I'm going to do that, but I am disappointed that SVG import/export appears to be so inconsistently managed.

In P&G17 importing an SVG results in a clipview of the imported objects, even if no viewBox parameters were present in it. That doesn't seem right, and P&G16 only used clipview when the viewBox was present. Because I am updating an open-source CAM prog at the moment (a very LOOOOONG moment ), which is SVG-based, one of the things I am correcting is its own SVG export facility as it has its own issues, and so I have been doing a lot of testing with it. I was expecting that Xara with its very long pedigree in vector-based drawing would be pretty much pitch-perfect on SVG import/export, and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed that it has been having these issues.

The viewBox settings if present in an SVG file is a clipview/zoom-level combo facility, and is optional, it doesn't have to be present. But that isn't behind P&G16/17's issue, because it still enlarges my ship counter if the viewBox is absent, which means explicitly no scaling, and even if it is present, if the viewBox width and height match the document (viewport) width and height, scaling is 1:1 anyway, ie no change.

I have also now found the opposite problem, where a collection of ship counters exported as SVG from my CAM prog is about 23.5cm across, but when imported into P&G16 it is scaled down to about 7.6cm across! Inkscape imports it correctly, and so does P&G11.

If I import it into P&G17, I see nothing but I am told there is a clipview object. If I remove the clipview and give the clip rectangle (actually it was unclosed and P&G17 reports it as a line) a line thickness to make it visible, the collection appears outside the clip rectangle, which is why it was invisible. And it is also only about 7.6cm across, not 23.5cm.

I am wondering if this is related to the treatment imported photos are given, whereby they are rescaled to a 'suitable' size? I may do some testing on that, see if there is an acceptable range where the imports are not scaled.

[handrawn]

its good to see you back mike

yes what I got, with Xara Photo & Graphic Designer 16.3.0.57723 DL x64 Oct 25 2019, is the scaling down.... it's a pigs ear.. SVG is supposed to have standards, but I suspect xara uses libraries that are either out of date or not up to the mark

[Egg Bramhill]

Hi Mike, I think the issues being caused by your Adventures in SVG file rather than a Xara bug:

[Egg Bramhill]

Can you try this with the attached. Do you still get a sizing discrepancy?

[Egg Bramhill]

Just a thought, have you Run X17 as Administrator?

Here's a similar file based on your token, which works fine for me: