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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    Cliff I personally couldn't agree more with what you and the others that have posted on this thread.

    I try real hard and do the best I can so lets just leave it at that.
    Larry a.k.a wizard509

    Never give up. You will never fail, but you may find a lot of ways that don't work.

  2. #12
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    Feb 2007
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    Hi Cliff

    I'll take the last point first:

    One last thing...handrawn; when you were "building audio circuits from scratch", weren't those op amps, transistors, valves, tubes, boards, and whatever you used to "build from scratch" the templates and smart shapes and widgets you needed to "build form scratch"? You didn't build THEM, did you?
    no indeed - but you can take that argument right down to the atomic [or subatomic level] - everything is made of something else; the point was about design in the creative sense - you can only be creative in a limited sense with a building block that has a specific purpose, the more specific the purpose the more limited you are; for example when assembling a computer the graphics card will only do what it was designed by someone else to do, wheras if you built your own from components it would have whatever capability you designed into it

    I could use clip art a lot - I don't partly because someone would notice, but more to the point, I would think it at best lazy, at worst cheating, I prefer to make my own asset; that is not to say it is all 100% original and most things that look realistic have to have a reference, but it has to have a unique style; style is crucial; if you are an artist in the sense that I am, and someone else cannot tell your work apart from another's just by looking at it, you have no style, and quite possibly no work

    I don't see this in websites... sure they can [should] have style, but can you point to a website and say - that was made by XYZ just by looking at it? I don't think so, because that is not what they are about, but I may be wrong...

    moving on...

    the other point I was trying to make is that Xara has gone down the route it has for solid commercial reasons - there is little point, at this stage anyway, in 'adding new vector tools' because it won't make them the money they need - there is too much competition out there now, the world has changed, the options widened considerably... and so like all good companies [and artists ] they are concentrating on what they see as their future in a way that will give them an edge - find a niche, exploit it... hence xara cloud...

    I chucked all notions of 'one program does it all' just about the time the back of my ears dried out graphically speaking - but that is not to say that programs such as XDA are not useful, it is, but it is just one tool in the box for me
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    San Diego
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    yes well..... assuming what you say is true cliff, the boat has nevertheless sailed, it is too late in the day

    and there are so many things xara designer cannot do, and so if you need these things, then you are going to look at it differently; if you don't and all you do is covered by the program, then fair enough

    for example xara does not do:

    winding rule options
    outline position options [outside-midway-inside] - this is often a real time waster
    it's animation is basic [and that's being kind]
    it's bitmap handling capabilities are tailored !00% towards non-destructive editing, which is actually limiting in many respects
    it does not do greyscale colour space
    it's cmyk is a pain to use [this may be a bit personal]

    mock-ups is what xara does very well indeed [as long as you don't want CAD accuracy] - but in a project there is so much more; the hare does not always win the race
    I typically use the outliner instead of line. I think my brain just thinks that way as it is. I think my biggest gripe with Xara is really a complaint with Illustrator in that they haven't kept up with Adobe's file format at all, making loading up anything exported as AI basically garbage. I expect some stuff to be broken as that's Adobe's entire business model: Use it's position as 'standard' knowing people are forced to use it in many cases and lock everyone out by constantly changing file format, creating an artificial paywall, but even programs like GIMP can keep up moderately well with the Photoshop format as long as you don't use any very specific GIMP effects.

    I ran into issue recently where I needed to work with someone using Illustrator and neither program loads SVG worth a damn. If I recall correctly, at least Xara can kinda load/export SVG, but Illustrator was just ignorant to the format completely, hilariously so, since that's a web standard format. Gotta love business practices and trying to force people to a format. I wish Imaging and video formats would just agree on format like the audio industry basically has. Everything can load MIDI, WAV and AIFF, allowing anyone to recreate a project in any other software. But nope, it's gotta be a PITA for vector...either you just export rasters and continue on from there, or...?????

    Competition creates headaches for us on the user end and really the competition is workflow and features, not format.
    lots of my xara-made stuff ends up on my tumblr. NOT ALWAYS SAFE FOR WORK BUT MOSTLY IS

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    I use PDF format to export vector from xara - it works fine for solid colour vector, gradients and transparency have issues - this is as much to do with xara being proprietary in the way it does these things, as adobe
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    S. Florida
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    474

    Default Re: Did you know... III

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    Hi Cliff

    you can take that argument right down to the atomic [or subatomic level] - everything is made of something else; the point was about design in the creative sense - you can only be creative in a limited sense with a building block that has a specific purpose, the more specific the purpose the more limited you are; for example when assembling a computer the graphics card will only do what it was designed by someone else to do, whereas if you built your own from components it would have whatever capability you designed into it
    Excellent! I DO have an answer LOL, but I would just be trying to be smart. Points taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    I could use clip art a lot - I don't partly because someone would notice, but more to the point, I would think it at best lazy, at worst cheating.
    You callin' me lazy? You callin' me a cheater? LOL handrawn, some of us just don't have the natural talents of others and have to do what we have to do. I know you understand this and I thoroughly understand your very valid philosophy regard the integrity of your work.


    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    the other point I was trying to make is that Xara has gone down the route it has for solid commercial reasons - there is little point, at this stage anyway, in 'adding new vector tools' because it won't make them the money they need - there is too much competition out there now, the world has changed, the options widened considerably... and so like all good companies [and artists ] they are concentrating on what they see as their future in a way that will give them an edge - find a niche, exploit it... hence xara cloud...
    Well said!

  6. #16
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    Dec 2014
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    San Diego
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    I use PDF format to export vector from xara - it works fine for solid colour vector, gradients and transparency have issues - this is as much to do with xara being proprietary in the way it does these things, as adobe
    That's my gripe...SVG is open. Yet Xara and Illustrator (and other vector programs) ignore it entirely. It's MIDI for resolution independence and nothing except Inkscape even gives it any thought. While I don't think SVG format is as good as how Xara handles things like feathering (SVG does it very VERY differently, as 'blur'), I think Xara could benefit from adjusting it's engine to accommodate SVG standard. It's web friendly, it's non proprietary (like PDF), works on web and basically how Xara's engine works would only need minor tweaking in a sense.

    But hey, I don't run a business so what do I know...*cough*MIDI&WAVEISSUPPORTEDBYEVERYEQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERANDSOFTWAREVENDORANDEVERYONEISHAPPY*co ugh*

    Did I mention that business hurts the artist?
    lots of my xara-made stuff ends up on my tumblr. NOT ALWAYS SAFE FOR WORK BUT MOSTLY IS

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    @ cmpan1

    Excellent! I DO have an answer LOL, but I would just be trying to be smart. Points taken.
    any given argument is only valid for a given frame of reference - there is no such thing as a frame of reference that covers everything no matter what; there are some that have never so far been shown to be wrong, but that is not the same thing as saying they will always being right

    @ hseiken

    I would hope/expect that xara cloud adopts the SVG standard at least

    I am not in a position to know how big a 'tweak' it would be, I have not seen the code

    Did I mention that business hurts the artist?
    I suggest then you never try script-writing
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  8. #18
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    Dec 2014
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    I suggest then you never try script-writing
    What kind of script writing? Like copy-writing for sites? Done that. I'm not sure I have a soul any longer. Do you mean scripting language for computing? I know multiple. I re-iterate I'm not sure I have a soul any more. :P
    lots of my xara-made stuff ends up on my tumblr. NOT ALWAYS SAFE FOR WORK BUT MOSTLY IS

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Did you know... III

    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
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