No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

[handrawn]

@jonopen

I like that - maybe xara/magix will put it on their buy now page [for a small consideration, of course ]

[Gypsyjoe]

@Acorn and @Gypsyjoe

About having to reinstall, there are always exceptions, but I would hope that they would be rare. Software does not usually fail overnight for no reason. Something happened, gremlins in the computer maybe.

You say gremlins in my computer? The program XDPX worked fine when I went to bed and did not work first thing the next morning! How come if it were gremlins is it that XDPX was the only program affected? My computer is checked daily by both AVG and MalwareBytes for virus's none found. Sorry I only back up weekly so it had been 4 days since the last backup maybe I don't do that often enough but I don't feel that was the problem! I have a rather large website https://www.flea-usa.com and when I try to work on it I get the error message "This file was produced by a different or newer version of the program. It contains some data that will be ignored.". Should I have to start my rather huge website over again because I was stupid enough to let a program I paid for update? I might understand if I did something, but no hard drive failure, no virus the program itself messed up! When the program itself messed up you call that a gremlin? Maybe you want to take all the hours and days it took me to create my website to go back and rebuild it, I don't! I will wait until version 17 comes out as what I understand it will be out shortly and the buy it again so I can once again work on my website, but I will no longer use the update service and allow it to force me into buying again with my arm twisted behind my back just so I can work on something I created with something I paid for. Keep your gremlins!

[pauland]

If there was one thing that has eaten away at the Xara community and caused all sort of divisiveness and dissatisfaction, it's the move to the update service.

It's caused TG members to bicker and argue about what it means (jonopen: great diagram, maybe we can post it every time someone asks about the update service), it's caused TG members to bitch and moan about Xara and the injustice of it all.

The real culprits are most likely in Germany knocking back a few steins right now and not seeing any of this or being bothered by it.

Perhaps we should call it a day and with luck something positive will emerge on TG - like a stereogram or something.

So many people used to produce great artwork, but they've mostly moved on, and we haven't had any moody canal photographs for a while either.

[handrawn]

or snails

things have moved on - xara desktop is now known as a website generator; xara cloud as a document generator

I may just call it a day and let it it be

[Acorn]

@browj2

John, it boils down to the MagiXara model: buy in at a version and get undisclosed samplers that you cannot guarantee their retention after expiry of the Update Service. Bug fixes are treated as samplers. This is the nub of the "fall back".
Elsewhere, buy in at version (nn) and get sub-version updates and bug fixes for the duration; buy in again at version (nn+1).

You then suggest compare Update Service against pre-Update Service, mentioning the Business Packs and other Widget content was at a cost. Well, I already bought those and, at v11, they are still sitting available within its forever Online Content Catalogue (OCC) (http://downloadsv11.xara.com/web/catalog/index.html).
Check what came free then ("No free access to all of the on-line content"?):

• Example Illustrations - 70 examples.
• Free Example Templates - 26 templates.
• Smart Shapes - 36 shapes.
• Presentation - Component Theme - 23 components.
• Page Elements & Widgets - Free Trial Samples - 26 samples.
• Page Elements & Widgets - Legacy - 40 headers.
• Website backgrounds - 69 examples.

If you bought the CD, you got 400MB of content (all of the OCC above less BPs & Widgets) without needing to Download all. That was and still is an option but less important as its OCC is forever.

For the Update Service, the worst case is no OCC access or local downloads (as did happen) and you are left with: Xara - That's your Lot!.web. You might be lucky and access the items above and including the separator, if you have the Internet, otherwise it is all of the five items under the separator. Try using the application to build a website with these.

Re-installs are not rare and wholly expose the duplicity of the Update Service "fall back".

If the Update Service & EULA were explained properly at point of purchase and in the purchase emails, most would look elsewhere.

Acorn

[pauland]

This whole renewal topic would work well as a repeating GIF..

..jonopen, where's that picture?

[Acorn]

@browj2

John, it boils down to the MagiXara model: buy in at a version and get undisclosed samplers that you cannot guarantee their retention after expiry of the Update Service. Bug fixes are treated as samplers. This is the nub of the "fall back".
Elsewhere, buy in at version (nn) and get sub-version updates and bug fixes for the duration; buy in again at version (nn+1).

You then suggest compare Update Service against pre-Update Service, mentioning the Business Packs and other Widget content was at a cost. Well, I already bought those and, at v11, they are still sitting available within its forever Online Content Catalogue (OCC) (http://downloadsv11.xara.com/web/catalog/index.html).
Check what came free then ("No free access to all of the on-line content"?):

• Example Illustrations - 70 examples.
• Free Example Templates - 26 templates.
• Smart Shapes - 36 shapes.
• Presentation - Component Theme - 23 components.
• Page Elements & Widgets - Free Trial Samples - 26 samples.
• Page Elements & Widgets - Legacy - 40 headers.
• Website backgrounds - 69 examples.

If you bought the CD, you got 400MB of content (all of the OCC above less BPs & Widgets) without needing to Download all. That was and still is an option but less important as its OCC is forever.

For the Update Service, the worst case is no OCC access or local downloads (as did happen) and you are left with: Xara - That's your Lot!.web. You might be lucky and access the items above and including the separator, if you have the Internet, otherwise it is all of the five items under the separator. Try using the application to build a website with these.

Re-installs are not rare and wholly expose the duplicity of the Update Service "fall back".

If the Update Service & EULA were explained properly at point of purchase and in the purchase emails, most would look elsewhere.

Acorn

P.S. Almost forget, Xara abandoned 32-bit, without notice, so Customers were forced to upgrade systems to get the newer releases. It might be quite a shock to then find out your XWDP, not under the Update Service, has "fallen back" when you were just upgrading XDPX. Some people do have both.

[handrawn]

if the Update Service & EULA were explained properly at point of purchase and in the purchase emails, most would look elsewhere.

a cynic would say that's why it is not, 'cos it ain't rocket science is it

EDIT - good point about the 32 bit ...

[handrawn]

This whole renewal topic would work well as a repeating GIF..

..jonopen, where's that picture?

bookmark the post - I think we may need it yet again...

[browj2]

I don't think I ever said there were no advantages to the update service

what concerns me are the ways in which users can get locked into the update cycle - and personally the fact that you can loose something through no fault of your own to which end:

you not taking hardware failure on board then? - you do not understand that it is my right to reconfigure my hardware, and if the company penalises me for this, and they are the only company i can think of that does, it is shameful

missing the point- you would never have lost anything, or needed to renew to reacess...

@handrawn

Correct, you didn't say that there were no advantages to the Update Service. But, you didn't say that there were advantages. That was my point. If we are to discuss the disadvantages, we must also keep in mind the advantages. People who read a thread like this would only see disadvantages.

Caught and locked in the update cycle - which is why in a previous post I mentioned how I got off of it. So far, so good.

If I change hardware, as is my right, I know fully well the consequences of my action, and the choice is mine. The Update Service is what it is.

Something that I just thought of, if down the road I am forced to renew, other than being able to get the use back of what I have now, do I get anything else? Of course; I will get new features, maybe a new version or two, and anything new in the online catalogue. I think that this has been forgotten in the argument. Even more, I probably would have renewed anyways just to get these. That is why I said that I would wait until the next version was out for a while (some bugs corrected) before renewing, unless of course I have to reinstall and absolutely need something.

@browj2

John, it boils down to the MagiXara model: buy in at a version and get undisclosed samplers that you cannot guarantee their retention after expiry of the Update Service. Bug fixes are treated as samplers. This is the nub of the "fall back".
Elsewhere, buy in at version (nn) and get sub-version updates and bug fixes for the duration; buy in again at version (nn+1).

You then suggest compare Update Service against pre-Update Service, mentioning the Business Packs and other Widget content was at a cost. Well, I already bought those and, at v11, they are still sitting available within its forever Online Content Catalogue (OCC) (http://downloadsv11.xara.com/web/catalog/index.html).
Check what came free then ("No free access to all of the on-line content"?):

• Example Illustrations - 70 examples.
• Free Example Templates - 26 templates.
• Smart Shapes - 36 shapes.
• Presentation - Component Theme - 23 components.
• Page Elements & Widgets - Free Trial Samples - 26 samples.
• Page Elements & Widgets - Legacy - 40 headers.
• Website backgrounds - 69 examples.

If you bought the CD, you got 400MB of content (all of the OCC above less BPs & Widgets) without needing to Download all. That was and still is an option but less important as its OCC is forever.

For the Update Service, the worst case is no OCC access or local downloads (as did happen) and you are left with: Xara - That's your Lot!.web. You might be lucky and access the items above and including the separator, if you have the Internet, otherwise it is all of the five items under the separator. Try using the application to build a website with these.

Re-installs are not rare and wholly expose the duplicity of the Update Service "fall back".

If the Update Service & EULA were explained properly at point of purchase and in the purchase emails, most would look elsewhere.

Acorn

@Acorn,

As I pointed out, the Update Service could be better explained and made much more visible. Even then, would people still read it?

Thanks for posting the list. There are things on it that are free trial samples. Try then buy? Same with examples?

Can you post the comparable list of current OCC against it? That would help to in seeing if and what are the advantages.

I did not buy everything back under the old system, only what I needed (or thought that I needed).

At the end of the day, and to answer my question, are you saying that the Update Service should be scrapped and that Magix/Xara return to the old model?

@jonopen,

I really like the chart but I think that it needs some tweaking.

Point 2, add in "...new version"

Point 4, not quite as it's a bit more complicated. M-hosting starts when you activate it, at least that is what happened to me. This may have changed; I don't know. Thus, my Update renewal and M-hosting date are out of sync by 6 months. I used the coupon to renew every year. This year, since I didn't renew in July, I had no coupon and thus had to pay for only M-hosting. So maybe instead of it being no access, you put something like "Loss of access or pay separately."

Footnotes:
First one, maybe add in something about "new version other than the one available at the beginning" and something about difficulties opening that used now defunct features.

Second one include something like "...or Template or downloaded everything from the OCC....

Have to go.