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  1. #21
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    Feb 2007
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    UK
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    if, like you and me bob, all you use the program for is to create graphics then what you say is true enough; i don't use the OCC, hardly ever design templates, but there are creators who do, who need this asset downloaded at the very least

    Xara have nailed their colours very firmly to the online/cloud mast - it is indicative of who they see their core market/customers as: websites and print

    one of these days, i see it comming, i will migrate my xara work entirely over to affinity; as it is, all my DTP is there, and most of my xara work now is legacy - and once again, the affinity version upgrade from ver 7 to ver 8 is completely free and unrestricted for existing customers

    it is clear who the xara/magix model benefits [most] and that is them; they as good as said that their cash-flow would improve as a result and the commercial side of me hopes for their sake that it did - just as it hopes online/cloud never becomes a millstone round their [or anyone elses] neck in a crisis, international or otherwise.... but using it day to day [other than for secondary/offsite backup] is not the way I like to work.. call it prudence... call it experience borne of a pre-millennium world that got used to not taking such things for granted
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Ocala, FL, USA
    Posts
    387

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Though I called it a new question, it still dealt with backing up, reinstall of the program & content so I didn't really think it should have it's own thread.

    Truly had I realized how the Xara product had changed its model,
    I wouldn't have purchased this version 16. I would have stayed with 11 that is a full and complete software, with CD...

    But thanks to this forum I am ready for a reinstall, whole and safe.
    I have my 16.0 install exe.
    And the Content installer provided fonts/fills and Panoramic Studio exe files
    And the captured Update install exe
    And I just copied the folders for cache for designs and fonts.
    And a Text file with notes re where to put things & other notes from the 2 threads

    I wont do a mirror, or a virtual machine to protect my current install. Years ago, I probably would have.

    Yes, I am a dinosaur. I want to use what I purchase, as I see fit, when and where I see fit.
    I don't want to upgrade every year. I don't do that on any of my equipment and software.
    (Even my refrigerator was purchased in 1980! Doesn't look pretty but still works )

    but using it day to day [other than for secondary/offsite backup] is not the way I like to work.. call it prudence... call it experience borne of a pre-millennium world that got used to not taking such things for granted
    Well put.
    Since I am often in areas without internet access, online services are not my best option.
    - Some of my customers are in rural areas with no access to internet. They use computers offline, go to town to have lunch and go online for a while.
    - Some of my customers pay for "high speed" and are promised to get "up to" 3MBps speeds. Usually receive less than 1MBps.
    Downloading and accessing online content on that is miserable. Streaming is impossible.

    one of these days, i see it comming, i will migrate my xara work entirely over to affinity;
    I have not heard of this. Maybe I need to know more?

    So thanks folks for your guidance and making me feel so much better about my v16 purchase.
    -Samantha
    "Try to live your life so that you wouldn't be afraid to sell the family parrot to the town gossip." Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    UK
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    17,539

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Affinity have three programs - Designer [vector] Photo [raster] and Publisher [dtp] - they started out on mac to give competiton to Adobe, by offering subscription free programs for Graphic Design and Illustration and then Publishing; all three are also available for Windows

    The Ui will take some getting used to after Xara, especially if you are not familiar with Photoshop/Illustrator/In-design - they do not do website generation - they are not a direct replacement, but for generating graphics i find them on balance just as good; Photo has a wider range of bitmap specific fuctions and tools which you would expect from an adobe competitior [which xara never officially claimed to be afaik]

    they are an offshoot of Serif and you will find them at https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/ [and not affinity.com who are someone else]
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    330

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Hi Samantha

    I’m very sorry if the thread was closed when you still had something to say. I closed it because experience shows that any questions about the Update Service lead with a dreadful inevitability to an explosion of posts from a handful of members, who are particularly interested in the Update Service, about why they don’t like it, how they would change it, how to circumvent it, and the models that other companies use – but rarely to a direct answer! I have to balance the right of members to repeat their opinions again and again against the frustration of other members who just want a quick answer, a clear explanation of what the Update Service is (as opposed to what it could or should be) and/or feel that the formerly harmonious environment of TG is becoming dominated by repeated fractious discussions of this one issue.

    Kate @ Xara

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    330

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @ everyone

    Yes, our delivery model is different to what it was before the Update Service was introduced at v12. Our FAQ describes it as accurately as possible as it now stands. The content is now in the Online Content Catalog, which is not available after the Update Service expires. When you purchase you are buying the software version available on that day, plus access to updates. If you do not want access to updates after that date because you might lose them after a reinstall when your Update Service expires, then I recommend you don’t download them; instead wait until you see updates that you really want and then renew again – pretty much what you used to do before the Update Service!

    Someone made the useful suggestion that the FAQ should be more prominent in TG. Good point, I will make it so. I will also review the content on our sites to see if there is something more we could do to overcome the expectations of anyone upgrading pre-v12 versions that the model will be exactly what it was before (without confusing people who have no idea that there ever was a different model!)

    On the Update Service I don't think I've got anything left to say that hasn't already been said. Please don't think this is because I am refusing to listen to feedback. A lot of the feedback has been constructive and all of it heartfelt, but responses were compiled and summarized for Magix from the very first threads after the US was released, and not many new suggestions have been posted since. The Update Service is the model that Magix use to deliver all their titles, and clearly they have balanced the Fors (as expressed by browj2) vs the Againsts (as expressed by Acorn, handrawn et al) along with the hard evidence presented by sales. There have been some tweaks but as yet I see no evidence that they plan a major change as a result, although after 30 years experience all I know for sure is that no model is permanent 😊

    Kate @ Xara

  6. #26
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Nothing is that, including the members you rely on to help out here

    Thanks

    The only thing I have against the update service personally [apart from it being confusing] is that it is unfair to those who lose their computer through no fault of their own and then lose the updates they had - nowhere have i seen this specific addressed in your FAQ's etc, maybe i missed it....
    Last edited by handrawn; 03 March 2020 at 05:13 PM. Reason: canna spel never cud
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    SW England
    Posts
    11,309

    Post Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @webmaster, bogeyman here.

    I agree your Update Service document, http://shared.xara.com/diNpZUgi2O, needs to be more prominent on TG, in Xara FAQs, Magix FAQs and at time of purchase.

    You might review the document in time for the next update.

    • <title>cloud.xara Introduction</title> ought to be changed to the proper document title.
    • "auto-update" & "fall back". This is really important. Nowhere, and I have checked, do you explain that this "fall back" may impact on the updating of existing design documents as the code that may appear in the "auto-update" is no longer there. You do not explain "free usage of new features released during the 365 days after you purchase" is actually lost to you if you "fall back". This key point is this is not obvious until one has fallen back and without access to earlier sub-version, you cannot know as you have not explicitly declared them; you have to know where to look. [c.f., SmartShape Table 09, Name of "templateMinProgramVersion:15.1.0"] You cannot apply this approach to Text Fitting, Ligatures, SmartFields and the like so the designer is hung out to dry.
    • "...you’ll be working with the latest features and operating systems, ..." I might not appreciate you updating my operating systems. This does need a little rework.
    • "Bug fixes". Can you explain whether the Patch Release 15.1.0.53605 covering SmartShape Tables counts as a bug fix and similarly the continuing failure of SmartShape Tables to function as advertised (https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...09-Serious-Bug) in version 16.3.1 is handled for those out of Update Service cover for a function that was released at version 15 and has yet to be rectified?
    • Your prior comment about "When you purchase you are buying the software version available on that day, plus access to updates." contradicts the document as it states "Software which includes the Update Service will usually* auto-update to the latest version at the time of registration - that means you can be sure that once you register, you’ll be working with the latest features and operating systems, regardless of the date and place of purchase." The most clear statement has to be "If you are purchasing for the first time then the 365 days start at the time of registration."
    • "expiry date". The second link in "Otherwise sign in to the Magix Service Center on magix.com (or on xara.com/products) and select My Products" is nugatory; it add three wasted links to get to the place given by the first link.
    • "...when we move to a full new version eg v15 or v16. In those cases you will need to download a new installer.." - no explanation that all prior configurations will then be lost, including downloads into the cache folder.
    • "new feature releases" - templates are not new features. Tables 01 to Table 12 are still one SmartShape table design (one feature) just as over 1 million royalty-free images is just one feature. Five months between releases does not demonstrate "a more consistent level of pre-release testing and post-release support, ...".
    • "Online Content Catalog(ue)" - no mention of Download All.

    Acorn
    Acorn - My currently active Xara software: XDPX (current, v15, v12 & 11 (64-bit)), unserviced XWD Premium 15 & 12, XPGD10, X3D7; lots of licences back through time (to CC's Artworks). If your Post identifies a Xara software fault, please raise it directly with Magix --> support2.magix.com.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Harwich, Essex, England
    Posts
    19,588

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Hi Kate,

    I closed it because experience shows that any questions about the Update Service lead with a dreadful inevitability to an explosion of posts from a handful of members, who are particularly interested in the Update Service, about why they don’t like it, how they would change it, how to circumvent it, and the models that other companies use – but rarely to a direct answer!
    TG is the only forum that I know of where members can post their feelings regards Xara Designer. If you feel that these are expressions of dislike from 'a handful of members' perhaps you'd like to post a a poll and get an across the board inication of our true feelings? The direct answer is that your users don't like it and that the solution no longer lays in Xara's hands but within Magix's control.
    Egg

    Intel i7 - 4790K Quad Core + 16GB Ram + 232 GB SSD + 250 GB SSD portable drive
    Xara Designer Pro X 16

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17,539

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    posts from a handful of members, who are particularly interested in the Update Service
    that did put a wry smile on my face when I first read it... any other circumstance you would think particularly interested members would be most welcome to discuss a topic

    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Morelos, Mexico
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @webmaster. If I may add my two cents. I understand that you have the task of keeping order on the forum, and that it is not a small task. I think that what many members are expressing is a sense that we are being censored. Even if our complaining is a moot form of venting (though we may hope that it will provoke a change), the idea that we would be kept from it feels a bit offensive. All of us have paid for the Xara products; many of us keep our subscription completely up to date; and others update but less frequently. Censoring us does not foster a good relationship. Thanks for reading.

 

 

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