No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

[samrc]

Though I called it a new question, it still dealt with backing up, reinstall of the program & content so I didn't really think it should have it's own thread.

Truly had I realized how the Xara product had changed its model,
I wouldn't have purchased this version 16. I would have stayed with 11 that is a full and complete software, with CD...

But thanks to this forum I am ready for a reinstall, whole and safe.
I have my 16.0 install exe.
And the Content installer provided fonts/fills and Panoramic Studio exe files
And the captured Update install exe
And I just copied the folders for cache for designs and fonts.
And a Text file with notes re where to put things & other notes from the 2 threads

I wont do a mirror, or a virtual machine to protect my current install. Years ago, I probably would have.

Yes, I am a dinosaur. I want to use what I purchase, as I see fit, when and where I see fit.
I don't want to upgrade every year. I don't do that on any of my equipment and software.
(Even my refrigerator was purchased in 1980! Doesn't look pretty but still works )

but using it day to day [other than for secondary/offsite backup] is not the way I like to work.. call it prudence... call it experience borne of a pre-millennium world that got used to not taking such things for granted

Well put.
Since I am often in areas without internet access, online services are not my best option.
- Some of my customers are in rural areas with no access to internet. They use computers offline, go to town to have lunch and go online for a while.
- Some of my customers pay for "high speed" and are promised to get "up to" 3MBps speeds. Usually receive less than 1MBps.
Downloading and accessing online content on that is miserable. Streaming is impossible.

one of these days, i see it comming, i will migrate my xara work entirely over to affinity;

I have not heard of this. Maybe I need to know more?

So thanks folks for your guidance and making me feel so much better about my v16 purchase.

[handrawn]

Affinity have three programs - Designer [vector] Photo [raster] and Publisher [dtp] - they started out on mac to give competiton to Adobe, by offering subscription free programs for Graphic Design and Illustration and then Publishing; all three are also available for Windows

The Ui will take some getting used to after Xara, especially if you are not familiar with Photoshop/Illustrator/In-design - they do not do website generation - they are not a direct replacement, but for generating graphics i find them on balance just as good; Photo has a wider range of bitmap specific fuctions and tools which you would expect from an adobe competitior [which xara never officially claimed to be afaik]

they are an offshoot of Serif and you will find them at https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/ [and not affinity.com who are someone else]

[webmaster]

Hi Samantha

I’m very sorry if the thread was closed when you still had something to say. I closed it because experience shows that any questions about the Update Service lead with a dreadful inevitability to an explosion of posts from a handful of members, who are particularly interested in the Update Service, about why they don’t like it, how they would change it, how to circumvent it, and the models that other companies use – but rarely to a direct answer! I have to balance the right of members to repeat their opinions again and again against the frustration of other members who just want a quick answer, a clear explanation of what the Update Service is (as opposed to what it could or should be) and/or feel that the formerly harmonious environment of TG is becoming dominated by repeated fractious discussions of this one issue.

Kate @ Xara

[webmaster]

@ everyone

Yes, our delivery model is different to what it was before the Update Service was introduced at v12. Our FAQ describes it as accurately as possible as it now stands. The content is now in the Online Content Catalog, which is not available after the Update Service expires. When you purchase you are buying the software version available on that day, plus access to updates. If you do not want access to updates after that date because you might lose them after a reinstall when your Update Service expires, then I recommend you don’t download them; instead wait until you see updates that you really want and then renew again – pretty much what you used to do before the Update Service!

Someone made the useful suggestion that the FAQ should be more prominent in TG. Good point, I will make it so. I will also review the content on our sites to see if there is something more we could do to overcome the expectations of anyone upgrading pre-v12 versions that the model will be exactly what it was before (without confusing people who have no idea that there ever was a different model!)

On the Update Service I don't think I've got anything left to say that hasn't already been said. Please don't think this is because I am refusing to listen to feedback. A lot of the feedback has been constructive and all of it heartfelt, but responses were compiled and summarized for Magix from the very first threads after the US was released, and not many new suggestions have been posted since. The Update Service is the model that Magix use to deliver all their titles, and clearly they have balanced the Fors (as expressed by browj2) vs the Againsts (as expressed by Acorn, handrawn et al) along with the hard evidence presented by sales. There have been some tweaks but as yet I see no evidence that they plan a major change as a result, although after 30 years experience all I know for sure is that no model is permanent 😊

Kate @ Xara

[handrawn]

Nothing is that, including the members you rely on to help out here

Thanks

The only thing I have against the update service personally [apart from it being confusing] is that it is unfair to those who lose their computer through no fault of their own and then lose the updates they had - nowhere have i seen this specific addressed in your FAQ's etc, maybe i missed it....

[Acorn]

@webmaster, bogeyman here.

I agree your Update Service document, http://shared.xara.com/diNpZUgi2O, needs to be more prominent on TG, in Xara FAQs, Magix FAQs and at time of purchase.

You might review the document in time for the next update.

• <title>cloud.xara Introduction</title> ought to be changed to the proper document title.
• "auto-update" & "fall back". This is really important. Nowhere, and I have checked, do you explain that this "fall back" may impact on the updating of existing design documents as the code that may appear in the "auto-update" is no longer there. You do not explain "free usage of new features released during the 365 days after you purchase" is actually lost to you if you "fall back". This key point is this is not obvious until one has fallen back and without access to earlier sub-version, you cannot know as you have not explicitly declared them; you have to know where to look. [c.f., SmartShape Table 09, Name of "templateMinProgramVersion:15.1.0"] You cannot apply this approach to Text Fitting, Ligatures, SmartFields and the like so the designer is hung out to dry.
• "...you’ll be working with the latest features and operating systems, ..." I might not appreciate you updating my operating systems. This does need a little rework.
• "Bug fixes". Can you explain whether the Patch Release 15.1.0.53605 covering SmartShape Tables counts as a bug fix and similarly the continuing failure of SmartShape Tables to function as advertised (https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...09-Serious-Bug) in version 16.3.1 is handled for those out of Update Service cover for a function that was released at version 15 and has yet to be rectified?
• Your prior comment about "When you purchase you are buying the software version available on that day, plus access to updates." contradicts the document as it states "Software which includes the Update Service will usually* auto-update to the latest version at the time of registration - that means you can be sure that once you register, you’ll be working with the latest features and operating systems, regardless of the date and place of purchase." The most clear statement has to be "If you are purchasing for the first time then the 365 days start at the time of registration."
• "expiry date". The second link in "Otherwise sign in to the Magix Service Center on magix.com (or on xara.com/products) and select My Products" is nugatory; it add three wasted links to get to the place given by the first link.
• "...when we move to a full new version eg v15 or v16. In those cases you will need to download a new installer.." - no explanation that all prior configurations will then be lost, including downloads into the cache folder.
• "new feature releases" - templates are not new features. Tables 01 to Table 12 are still one SmartShape table design (one feature) just as over 1 million royalty-free images is just one feature. Five months between releases does not demonstrate "a more consistent level of pre-release testing and post-release support, ...".
• "Online Content Catalog(ue)" - no mention of Download All.

Acorn

[Egg Bramhill]

Hi Kate,

I closed it because experience shows that any questions about the Update Service lead with a dreadful inevitability to an explosion of posts from a handful of members, who are particularly interested in the Update Service, about why they don’t like it, how they would change it, how to circumvent it, and the models that other companies use – but rarely to a direct answer!

TG is the only forum that I know of where members can post their feelings regards Xara Designer. If you feel that these are expressions of dislike from 'a handful of members' perhaps you'd like to post a a poll and get an across the board inication of our true feelings? The direct answer is that your users don't like it and that the solution no longer lays in Xara's hands but within Magix's control.

[handrawn]

posts from a handful of members, who are particularly interested in the Update Service

that did put a wry smile on my face when I first read it... any other circumstance you would think particularly interested members would be most welcome to discuss a topic

[Acorn]

the Fors (as expressed by browj2) vs the Againsts (as expressed by Acorn, handrawn et al)

I have no experience of Magix's products other than the one that was forced on us on XDA install or the fantastical ASEOPS software that is parked on my machine purposeless. What is wrong with the Magix model imposed on Xara is that it is wholly inappropriate for applications that produce outcomes that are locked to a version that may disappear. Try selling MS Office where Tables no longer can be edited and see how long that lasts. You then conflate my disdain for the SmartShapes that you have focused on as a result of Xara Cloud development; you have failed to integrate them onto the XDA design page and the outputs to web are a disaster for screen readers. Locking content behind a paywall is niggardly. Do so for templates, if you must. I can buy better for permanent use elsewhere, but leave the Components that are at the heart of our design efforts accessible. Most of your recent deliveries are buggy to an unprecedented degree and the Update Service Model (use 'em & confuse 'em) is incapable of delivering separated bug fixes or you have chosen to overlook doing so. Finally, to then allow Magix to package and force unwanted Newsfeeds and badly implement them to the detriment of your product is inexplicable.

To summarise I have the fullest support for the Update Service provided the "fall back" is eradicated. The rest of the faults we can take on one a time.

Acorn

[handrawn]

I use Magix Music Maker, and SoundForge - do I get these problems, no

Try selling MS Office where Tables no longer can be edited and see how long that last

that more or less sums it up dosn't it...

I have been in the possition of trying to defend the indefensible, it is not a nice place to be... I am not saying this is the case necessarily with the magix update serviceas far as xara is concerned, but I wonder if they realised they were contracting into a model that does not really suit the application, in the way that you have outlined, and if they did they must have had a reason...

anyway the point is well made i think...