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  1. #61
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by browj2
    @handrawn
    If we are to discuss the disadvantages, we must also keep in mind the advantages.
    this does not necessarily follow - it is not what the thread is about


    If I change hardware, as is my right, I know fully well the consequences of my action, and the choice is mine. The Update Service is what it is.
    yes put bluntly - if xara do not give a toss about this my choice is to use affinity

    Something that I just thought of, if down the road I am forced to renew, other than being able to get the use back of what I have now, do I get anything else? Of course; I will get new features, maybe a new version or two, and anything new in the online catalogue. I think that this has been forgotten in the argument.
    you assume these will be useful; past experience for me says anything but in almost every case


    john - there is a reason why xara alone has this sort of update model: is it because no-one else has thought of it.. ? or is it because no-one else thinks it is a good idea...? - this is rhetorical we can all make up our own minds


    ..
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    21

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    john - there is a reason why xara alone has this sort of update model: is it because no-one else has thought of it.. ? or is it because no-one else thinks it is a good idea...? - this is rhetorical we can all make up our own minds


    ..
    I recall a developer tool company that went to subscription model with the same fall back consequence. When users rebelled, they took that away, and when you opt out, you stay at the current level, I am not sure about re-install but it seems like you could save the upgrades within your license period. You also get a discount on future renewals.
    I prefer to run Windows in Virtual Machines, I do not let anything update until I want it to. When I have to update, I set a snapshot. I can delete the snapshot if and when all is well. To back the whole thing up, I just copy the virtual machine to my NAS (it is just a bunch of files). I can run the same VM's on both my Linux desktop and my MacBook Pro, makes it easy when I am away from home.
    One would guess that even a subscription model is tough for desktop users, there is not too much to enhance to get users to stay in the game. Easier to just wait a few years and wait for a sale. One could imagine people like Xara watching Microsoft count their gazillions as people pay for Office on line. Kaching, Kaching. We want some of that. Thus the emphasis on their cloud offering. Seems like that has a way to go, only took a brief look.
    I am a new (read dumb) user of Xara (just updated from X9) but do a fair amount of programming. Updated to be able to create a couple of vanilla web sites.
    Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

  3. #63
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    interesting re the company you mention

    my system backs up an image of the complete C: drive once a day automatically, and I can manually trigger one when I need [which presumably is what you mean by 'snapshot' - restore point] - the program I use [acronis true image] is not free, but it is fast and resource light - you get what you pay for as I have said elsewhere.. it will also sandbox a new program/app installation if you are not sure about it

    back in the day I used to rebuild windows XP every three months because I was pushing it to it's limits - like or loathe windows 10 I find it is no longer necessary to do this....
    Last edited by handrawn; 06 March 2020 at 08:13 AM. Reason: clarity
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Info Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by browj2 View Post
    @Acorn,
    Thanks for posting the list. There are things on it that are free trial samples. Try then buy? Same with examples?
    Can you post the comparable list of current OCC against it? That would help to in seeing if and what are the advantages.
    I am sorry John if you are confused.

    The v11 samples are there for use with the Trial - all of them.
    I believe if you download https://downloads.xara.com/downloads...rprox11-64.exe, you will be in trial-mode so Download all can be used for what I documented.
    I have a spare machine somewhere to try but I don't particularly wish to deactivate a later licence to load a trial.
    So if a Customer has v12, v15 or v16 and is out of the cover if its Update Service, you could download these and get quite a lot to use in your later version.

    If you had actually bought v11, you can recover its licence number from https://www.magix.com/gb/support/my-service-center/ and access all of the OCC still and all for free.

    Trial-mode for v16 is just the bottom five Shapes.

    Sadly, you only have a two-machine install licences after version 10, v4 - v10 were 3-machine licences.

    Acorn


    My Licensed XDAs and, admittedly, sunk costs show my dedication to Xara products:

    1. Xara Xtreme Pro 4
    2. Webstyle 4
    3. Webstyle 4 CD
    4. XaraClub Webstyle
    5. XaraClub Webstyle2
    6. XaraClub Webstyle3
    7. Menu Maker 1.1 Download
    8. Xara3D 2
    9. Xara3D 5 Boxed Version
    10. Xara3D 3
    11. Xara3D 4
    12. Xara X (CD)
    13. Xara X¹
    14. Xara X1 CD
    15. Xara X1 Retail
    16. Webster2
    17. Webster
    18. Xara Xtreme
    19. Xara3D 6
    20. Xara3D 6 Retail
    21. Xara3D 6 Download
    22. Xara Xtreme Pro
    23. Xara Xtreme Pro
    24. Xara Xtreme Retail
    25. Xara Xtreme Pro 3.2
    26. Xara Xtreme Pro 3.2
    27. Xara Web Designer
    28. Xara Xtreme Pro 5
    29. Xara Template Pack 1
    30. Xara Designer Pro 6
    31. Xara Web Designer 6
    32. Xara 3D Maker 7
    33. Xara Web Designer 7 Premium
    34. Xara Designer Pro 7
    35. Xara Widget Pack 1
    36. Xara Template Pack 2
    37. Xara Web Designer 6 Silver
    38. Xara Web Designer MX Premium
    39. Xara Designer Pro X
    40. Xara Web Pack 1
    41. Xara Web Designer 9 Premium
    42. Xara Web Pack 2
    43. Xara Designer Pro X9
    44. Xara Web Designer 10 Premium
    45. Xara Photo & Graphic Designer 10
    46. Xara Designer Pro X10
    47. Xara Web Designer 11 Premium
    48. Xara Designer Pro X11
    49. Xara Designer Pro X11 manual
    50. Xara Web Designer Premium 365
    51. Xara Designer Pro X365
    52. Xara Hosting (M)

    ​Shame it is not reciprocated.
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  5. #65
    Join Date
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Update on v11.
    I downloaded XDPXv11 as a Trial and got Xara Designer Pro X 11.2.3.40788, 01 September 2015.
    I performed Download all on every folder and ended up with 291 XAR/WEB files of components, templates and content including the enduring Xara microscope.
    The OCC is available for blue for access and red for purchase.
    So one can use the application for 7 days, download all the advised content and re-use elsewhere.
    Those with a suitable licence can use their latest v11 XDA in two locations, with all OCC content, forever.

    Yes I would revert to pre-Update Service days but I know the Update Service can be tuned to meet, Magix, Xara and our collective expectations.

    Acorn
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Morelos, Mexico
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    I realize that this thread has been dormant for a couple of weeks, so my apologies for waking it up. I followed along, but only from a distance, while it developed. With the new versions coming out, I decided to read it more thoroughly.

    Presumably like most, I always assumed that by renewing my subscription, I was also updating my fallback version. I began with v12 of WDP in October 2017, renewed in September 2018 while already using v15, and again in September 2019 with v16. So, my fallback version should be the v16.x that was current on the day of renewal, right?

    I saw only one post in this thread that explains what Magix really means to be your fallback version:

    Quote Originally Posted by Acorn View Post
    Today, I raised a Magix support Ticket at 13:27 GMT and received a reply at 14:04. The earlier email advised 2 business days for a response. Kudos!
    For verification, I sent Magix a similar detailed email. And the response was the same as Acorn’s:

    Hello,
    With your version and register version you will have the option to install XARA Web Designer 12 Premium without the update for version 15.
    Best regards,
    MAGIX Computer Products International Co.
    Michèle Hohmeier…
    I cross-checked the document at http://shared.xara.com/diNpZUgi2O/ that was posted by the webmaster, @Kate, here on talkgraphics (https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...ting-Explained). It states:
    Update Service
    What happens to the Update Service after 365 days?
    1. Do nothing, the Update Service expires and you will no longer receive any new features. The feature updates you have installed over the past 365 days will continue to run indefinitely, HOWEVER if you re-install your product on a new computer after the Update Service has expired then the new installation will fall back to the version you last purchased.
    So how do we interpret “the version you last purchased”?
    If it means the last version you purchased new (excluding renewals), it implies that they expect people to buy a new copy at the end of each subscription, rather than renew. That doesn’t make sense to me.

    The issue therefore becomes not simply that you lose access to any updates introduced during the year after you renew. (I actually understood that when I originally bought the product). It is that you lose access even to the features that you paid for by renewing!

    At the end of the day, if you don’t intend to renew your subscription indefinitely, you’d be better off not to renew. If a new feature comes out sometime down the road that you absolutely want, buy the product new so that you will always have the feature in your fallback version. In the end, you will probably more than pay for the new product with the money you saved by not renewing the earlier product.

    It seems like a questionable approach on Magix’s part, but they apparently aren’t to keen on having us users renew.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    La Malbaie, Canada
    Posts
    695

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @gcellison

    Read through the document in the link of the first message here.

    "The version you last purchased" actually means whatever version was available on the day that you last paid. A precision, and Acorn can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you pay before the 1 year runs out, that date would be the starting date of the next year, not the date that you paid.

    No, do not buy new if you already have had a version. You are eligible for the Update price, even if you are beyond the end of the Update Service. The difference between buying a new version and Upgrading is the price. Please read the referenced document carefully.

    My Update Service period for XDPX ran out last July. If, and when I renew, I will pay for the Upgrade price, definitely not new. And, the version that is available at that time will be the fallback version if I ever have to reinstall after the subsequent 1 year is over.

    Of course, if you really want to pay more, Magix/Xara would be more than happy to have the extra money.
    John CB
    Xara DPX(19.0.1.65946)

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Morelos, Mexico
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Thanks browj2,

    What you say makes sense, and I genuinely hope you’re right. However:

    27.03.2020 00:17 - gcellison@hotmail.com schrieb:

    To whom it may concern:
    I am a long-time user of Xara Web Designer Premium.
    I have recently read some conversations on the talkgraphics forum that have me confused.
    I originally subscribed to WDP365 on 24 October 2017. The version at the time was 12.
    I later renewed the subscription on 3 September 2018. The current version was 15. The renewal included a distinct product key.
    On 4 September 2019, I once again renewed my subscription. At that point, version 16 was active. As I check my records, however, I did not receive a new product key. The purchase is marked as an extension to the previous subscription. The earlier product key apparently remained valid.

    Included with the subscription, a user is entitled to updates throughout the following year. If they fail to renew at the end of the subscription, they continue to use the version installed on their computer (though they lose access to on-line catalogs, etc.). But if they ever need to reinstall the program, on a different computer or for whatever technical difficulty, the version they may download does not include the updates. Some refer to this as the “fall-back” version.
    My question is:
    In the event that I did not renew my current subscription when it expires, to which version am I entitled, i.e., my fall-back version? My original subscription was for version 12. My product key is for version 15. However, version 16 was already active and in use when I renewed most recently.
    Unfortunately, when I log into My Account in the Magix service center website, the information is not available.
    Though I currently have no plan not to renew my subscription when it expires, I would like to know which version I would be registered to receive in that event.
    Your prompt response is greatly appreciated.

    Weitere registrierte Produkte:
    Photo & Graphic Designer
    Xara Xtreme 5
    Photo Manager Deluxe
    Slideshow Maker 2
    VEGAS Movie Studio 15
    +10 weitere Produkte
    The response I received shortly thereafter (repeated from above):
    Hello,
    With your version and register version you will have the option to install XARA Web Designer 12 Premium without the update for version 15.
    Best regards,

    MAGIX Computer Products International Co.
    Michèle Hohmeier
    280 Greg St., Suite 10
    Reno, NV 89502-2272
    United States of America
    http://www.magix.com
    They seem to be telling a different story.

  9. #69
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    SW England
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    17,746

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Your "fall back" version will be the one available at the time of Registration.
    Now this becomes moot if you buy an XPA, download and register v16.3 then the next day v17.0 come out with a Release day before your registration.
    Pure logic dictates you are entitled to v17.0 for your "fall back" but Magix will argue its database saw you register v16.3.

    The next issue that is not clear is if you pay early for an Update Service renewal (as Magix really extols you to do) is what is your "fall back" version after any renewal?
    It is again unclear as I suspect Magix's records are not that nuanced.

    I believe that the Update Service code is your lifeline (Help > About).
    My XDPX v15.1 one is 4167 KA2. My v16.3 one is 4301 KA4. My v17.0 one is 4308 KA4. My out of cover XWDPv15.0 is 4292 KA1.
    My KA4 makes me suspect my actual "fall back" is v16.n. Your actual "fall back" should be to the version at the start of your current Update Service renewal.
    My XDPX pugdate for v15.1/v16.3/v17.0 is 03 June 2021 so I would expect a "fall back" to the extant version as at 04 June 2020, which ought to be at least v17.1 by then.
    My XWDPv15.0 pugdate is 15 April 2018, so I would expect a "fall back" to 15.1.0.53605 03 May 2018 but sadly not 15.1.1.54376 17 August 2018. These all depend on what Xara presents as the "correct" version in its Downloads page or Magix in its Products list.

    What a palaver.

    Acorn
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    La Malbaie, Canada
    Posts
    695

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @gcellison

    I don't have XWD, only XDPX, but I assume that the same applies to both.

    There seems to be some confusion in what you say in the email.

    I had version 11 with an activation code. As far as I recall, version 12 was called 365 and it definitely came with a new activation code. I renewed each year at the expiry date, never receiving a different activation code. The emails that I received make reference to the activation code received with version 12 and they stated "Renew Update Service - 1 year."

    In your case, you have an activation code with version 12 and another one with version 15. That implies that you did not renew (update or upgrade) but that you actually purchased a new version. Both are completely separate purchases. Since you did not renew for the version 12 purchase, if you have to reinstall and you use the associated activation code, if would revert to version 12 - you never renewed. If you use the other activation code received with version 15, and since it was renewed in September 2019, then version 16 is the fallback version if you don't renew next September and then have to reinstall later.

    First, check back to the email received from Xara for your purchase on the September 3, 2018. Does it specifically state "Renew Update Service - 1 year?" If not, then it was a new purchase.

    The email is somewhat confusing since you have two activation codes but stated that you renewed, when you likely did not, and Magix replied about one of them - version 12. Something probably got lost in the translation. Whoever replied did not see the activation code for version 15 and the subsequent renewals, only version 12 with no renewals.

    If you want clarity, raise a ticket and refer to the version 15 activation code and the subsequent renewals.
    John CB
    Xara DPX(19.0.1.65946)

 

 

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