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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    387

    Default No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @xara

    Hi Samantha

    #1 If I had not posed the questions, I would not have seen this document
    We've posted a link to it in Announcements and the moderators have been briefed to link to it


    This is a lovely thought. If the customer comes to the forum. Not everyone prefers public chat, forum support. Some customers are shy about asking for help and prefer help manuals, watching videos or contacting support areas privately. Xara should provide this info directly.
    Acorn and others have done well to explain to me the way to get the content into my machine and save it for future. I appreciate their assistance and guidance. And you should also since they still support your software and gave specific information that I and others need. Even if they had pointed me to your document, it did not answer my questions fully. So again, Acorn and others were necessary.

    #2 "if you re-install your product on a new computer after the Update Service has expired then the new installation will fall back to the version you last purchased."
    If you purchased in February, when you reinstall after expiry you will get 16.3, the version current on the day you registered. If you download it from download.com or whatever, and it's older, it will auto-update to 16.3.


    Well..this is good news.
    Thank you for providing the direct answer I came seeking.
    Shame it took so long to get to this point.
    FYI, I downloaded directly from Xara.com, not download.com or other 3rd party. From your description, I received an "older copy". This surprises me. Why wouldn't Xara offer the most current version?

    #3 All content is now online, it should appear automatically and immediately in the Online Content Catalog as soon as your register you copy. You don't have to click download or anything else to see the content (not since v7 anyway!). The same goes for any content we release while your Update Service is current. I don't know why this has not worked for you. I'm not clear if you can now see it all, if not I recommend you contact Magix support @ https://support2.magix.com/customer/. You can download anything you see in the Online Content Catalog to your local computer, then you will see it in the Local Designs Gallery.

    Since version 7? This is a misleading statement, maybe inaccurate by some standards.
    I have used many versions since 2004.
    I have version 10 and 11 on other very old computers. I also put version 11 on the same computer as my new 16. All were installed from the CD. All contain a ton of LOCAL content and additional content online that could be imported.
    I was not dependent on an internet connection to get basic content. I expected the same from version 16. Some local content, some in the online catalog. I often travel to two areas that have no internet connection. Being 100% dependent on the internet is not acceptable and should have been told.

    "as to what other companies are doing..." Yes, we all do it differently. Adobe for example has a different model, where obviously you lose access to everything, program and all, when your subscription expires. We have all made our different decisions about the best way forward, and what we must all try our best to do is explain how our model works.

    You have the right to choose a business model. Sadly Xara did not explain the current model well at all. Online offering the program you mention an "online catalog". Sure we have had additional content for many versions. Not for 100% content online, not that we lose connection to the only content offered after 365 days. I did not see this in installation, in the program as a popup splash, under the HELP as important information. Instead you depend on a post linked on a forum. That is weak.

    Kate @ Xara
    I have been respectful in my questions, in my statements and opinions.
    I have stated my shock and disappointment in my own thread.

    Truly the cherry on the top of the frustration came to find I could not give my final response because the thread was closed. That shows me that Xara really has no concern what a customer thinks. Though not huge account, on a personal basis, I have invested in 28 titles, plus web packs/add-ons and manuals and far more for business purposes. Also recommendations to clients who also purchased.
    My continued support of the product is obviously not wanted or needed.
    Thank you for personally making me feel unnecessary in your business model.

    Xara has always been an impressive program. Hopefully as I work with version 16 I will still feel that way about the software itself.
    -Samantha
    "Try to live your life so that you wouldn't be afraid to sell the family parrot to the town gossip." Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    SW England
    Posts
    11,353

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    +1
    It is also pleasing to read a well crafted Post. It left me feeling less isol5.

    I reread the closed Thread and I recall nothing whatsoever improper in iamtheblues' Post; he simply pointed out that Covid-19 was by far the more serious an issue. I may recollect incorrectly but I'll never know as it was deleted.

    Acorn
    Acorn - My currently active Xara software: XDPX (current, v15, v12 & 11 (64-bit)), unserviced XWD Premium 15 & 12, XPGD10, X3D7; lots of licences back through time (to CC's Artworks). If your Post identifies a Xara software fault, please raise it directly with Magix --> support2.magix.com.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17,555

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    in her final post in the closed thread kate (webmaster) confirmed that updates are lost if you reinstall on a new or modified computer

    so it is very important to capture those updates in the way i mentioned there

    i have no other software where such a hack would be necessary

    the company can rationalise it any way they wish, but it still instinctively sounds and feels bad...

    and so TG FAQs are firmly in fig-leaf territory in this regard - all these issues should be made explicit when you install

    i know xara are wholeheartedly committed to online/cloud working, but they do not make themselves look good implementing things the way they have
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
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    Bracknell, UK
    Posts
    8,368

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    in her final post in the closed thread kate (webmaster) confirmed that updates are lost if you reinstall on a new or modified computer

    so it is very important to capture those updates in the way i mentioned there

    i have no other software where such a hack would be necessary

    the company can rationalise it any way they wish, but it still instinctively sounds and feels bad...
    I would have thought that when a new update is available it becomes the default new installer from that date. I don't know why the last dated release before the subscription ended shouldn't be the install that that user has available after the subscription finishes. Easy for Xara to script and they just need to keep the dated installers available.

    I guess this is intended to incentivise subscription continuation, but it does seem punative compared with other software vendors.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
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    Placitas, New Mexico, USA
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    38,043

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    OK Hope I am deleting the right thread.
    Gary W. Priester
    Mr. Moderator Emeritus Dude
    , Sir

    gwpriester.com | Custom-Stereograms.com | eyeTricks on Facebook






  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    UK
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by pauland View Post

    I guess this is intended to incentivise subscription continuation, but it does seem punative compared with other software vendors.
    I am inclined to think it is because of the way the magix activation system works - you go back to the registered version you bought, you cannot go back to the last version you downloaded on your unmodified/previous computer because the activation hashtag is then lost... there are other vendors where a similar situation may arise [ableton come to mind] but you just contact them and they sort it.. only xara/magix say no way, because of their 'different way of doing things'...

    @Gary - thanks I think you got it....
    -------------------------------
    carpe diem
    carpo vitae

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Ocala, FL, USA
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @Gary Thank you for bringing back the thread.

    Handrawn said: in her final post in the closed thread kate (webmaster) confirmed that updates are lost if you reinstall on a new or modified computer so it is very important to capture those updates in the way i mentioned there
    I purchased in February 2020 so version 16.3 is the version that I would be eligible to reinstall. The install file I downloaded from Xara requires an update to get me to 16.3. I don't trust the program will "auto update" to 16.3.
    That means I need to try installing the program on my old beast computer so I can grab the update exe file for future use.

    Handrawn said: I don't know why the last dated release before the subscription ended shouldn't be the install that that user has available after the subscription finishes.
    It makes sense that if the program stops 16 and goes to version 17 during my 365 day service, those updates could not be reinstalled. It goes to a different version than what I purchased.

    I agree Handrawn. I am in a current 365 service agreement. Which means I should be eligible to retain and reinstall any update to the version 16 program that arrives during my 365 days. If during my 365 day service agreement we receive a 16.4 update, I should be eligible to retain and reinstall it.

    However based on Kate @Xara response, I would NOT be able to reinstall any update I receive after the 16.3, even if it is for the version 16 program. Clearly this means The 365 allows the user to "rent" updates beyond purchase date but does not entitle them to reinstall them.

    Hypothetical situation based on her statement: (Please help me to understand if I am wrong)
    Let's say I renew my 365 next February 2021.
    And update 16.4 and 17.1 arrive during the 2 years between purchase on 02/17/20 and 02/16/2022.
    If I stop paying for the 365 service, I revert back to version 16.3 on reinstall since that is the version I purchased.
    This convinces me to never renew the 365 service. And not accept or use any update after the 16.3
    Thank you @Xara for clarifying.

    The better route is to wait until the next full version release, download a 30 day trial, test its capabilities and purchase if I like it.
    Grab the content manually since Xara does not provide it and then I know for sure I can reinstall the exact version I purchase.


    For me, these are as important as the capabilities of the program itself:
    1. Work Offline, not depend on a constant internet connection (due to traveling to areas without internet - yes they still exist!)
    2. Reinstall on a new hard drive or new computer when necessary. I have had bad luck. Complete hard drive failures where reinstall was necessary. It happened in 2015 on a brand new DELL computer so age and use do not predict hard drive stability. Sometimes you have no choice.

    I have bought the CD versions, not just the download versions for ease of reinstall, content and not depending on internet connection. (That practice has now stopped. I was charged $14.99 for a CD that contained no content, just another copy of the basic program, worthless to me.)

    Obviously Xara's current model does not take users like me into account. They expect EVERYONE to have internet connection and don't really want people to reinstall.


    Just as an example
    This is on the HOME PAGE of my backup software. Nothing hidden, no guesswork. Xara could be this clear about their program.
    When you purchase any software from 2BrightSparks, you receive a perpetual license. This means that you can continue to use the version you purchased indefinitely and without restrictions. The software will not expire. All minor version upgrades are free, e.g. upgrading from V9.1 to V9.2 would be free. However, major version upgrades (e.g. V9 to V10) are not free and you are not entitled to free technical support.
    Last edited by samrc; 02 March 2020 at 03:59 PM. Reason: added syncback
    -Samantha
    "Try to live your life so that you wouldn't be afraid to sell the family parrot to the town gossip." Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada.
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    4,363

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by samrc View Post
    ... Let's say I renew my 365 next February 2021.
    No, you are always entitled to the current version on the date you renew. So when you pay to renew the update service in February 2021, you would then forever be entitled to reinstall the version current on that date. Hopefully 17.3 ...
    Keith
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    There are 10 types of people in this world .... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

  9. #9
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    Ocala, FL, USA
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Thank you.

    I purchased in Feb 2020. I am locked in for version 16.3 I can play with any updates that come in during this 365 day but all will be lost if I do not upgrade to new version if I have to reinstall next year. Any content will be lost if I do not download/backup for reinstall.

    Potentially...A year from now, I purchase the UPGRADE (currently $129) for whatever version is available.
    That version is what I can reinstall from that point on. But any further updates & content would be lost if I had to reinstall.

    Another program I am updating offered upgrade, with basic 90 day support or a support contract of a year.
    I was thinking Xara 365 service was an optional support choice, different than just upgrading to new version for a year. Got it.

    As I said before, these are as important as the capabilities of the program itself:
    1. Work Offline (local content)
    2. Reinstall on a new hard drive or new computer when necessary.

    If the 365 service included reinstall of any update to same version (example up to 16.4 from 16.3) then the 365 days service makes sense.

    Even with a clearer understanding of the 365 service, I am still convinced I will not accept any updates from here on out. Since I can not reinstall them without a new purchase, they are of no value to me until I want to upgrade to a new version.
    Last edited by samrc; 02 March 2020 at 09:09 PM.
    -Samantha
    "Try to live your life so that you wouldn't be afraid to sell the family parrot to the town gossip." Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    522

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @samrc

    Hi,

    To avoid more confusion, please do not refer to the Update Service as Xara 365 service or even mention 365. Xara dropped that nomenclature a couple of years ago. Magix has products that are actually called xxxx 365. These are real subscription products, meaning that if you don't pay, they don't work anymore. There is no Xara 365. Xara keeps on working after one year, even if you don't renew.

    See this link to the UK Update Service.

    If you pay for the Update Service 1 year from now, usually meaning an Upgrade to a new version, then you will get updates and new versions for 1 year following that date. If you had to reinstall within that year, then you would get whatever is available on that date, including any new features or versions. If you have to reinstall after the one year is up and you have not renewed, then the program reverts to whatever was available when you last paid.

    What are the chances that you will have to reinstall after the end of the one year period? Likely not very high unless you are planning on getting a new computer or something. Then you have almost no problem. Should you have to reinstall after the end of the one year period and you have not renewed, and you want the features/version that came out, then simply renew at that time. Otherwise, don't renew.

    I did not renew when it came up in July. I made sure to download all of the online content before that date and to update to the latest version. I have not had to reinstall Xara since. In fact, I have not had to reinstall Xara for several years; the last time being when I purchased a laptop in 2016. If I have to reinstall Xara, I will pay to renew at that time, or it would revert to version 15, not 16.

    Overall, I am better off. Before the update service started, I would have had to pay for version 15 and then again for 16. Now, I have 16 - but I paid for 15. When version 17 comes out, and a few patches later, I may consider renewing. That would likely give me version 17 and then 18 plus a few patches within the year- without having to pay twice like I would have had to do before.

    One more thing that people forget. Before the Update Service, we got a lot of content with the program, but most of the good stuff, like almost all of the templates and widgets, we had to purchase separately, piecemeal. When the Update Service started, we got access to ALL of the online content included with an upgrade to the new version by paying for only an upgrade to that version.

    Would everyone here like to scrap the Update Service and go back to paying for a new version every year and having to buy the (new) stuff in the online catalogue on top of the upgrade price? Not me.

    Magix video editors and Music Maker have an in-app Store in which one can purchase features, presets and content, as bundles or individually. There are things for as little as 69 cents. I don't think that we would like to see something like this happen to the on-line catalogue.
    John
    Xara DPX(16.2.0.56957)

 

 

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