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  1. #41
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    Arrow Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    John, compare
    Quote Originally Posted by browj2 View Post
    that is a risk that one should be willing to take knowing that this is how the Update Service works. Bite the bullet and renew if this should occur. After all, it is your problem, not that of Magix/Xara if you have to reinstall.
    with
    Quote Originally Posted by browj2 View Post
    someone comes along and starts questioning the whole thing as if it's something new that they just discovered, bla bla bla, and we start the entire discussion again.
    The point is Newbies do not know any better, nor do old-timers who chose to update into the new service, nor do those Customers who never look at TG...

    A re-install can be caused by MagiXara. Xara mucked up the catindex.txt files, losing all downloaded content. Xara has changed the OCC / Local Designs gallery structure. Magix has put incorrect hooks into the applications. Magix deleted all past login credentials for Xara Customers. Xara has never written perfect code and applications do hang and the Magix Support solution is to advise a re-installation. People work from different machines, in different environments, and may have to deactivate on one and install on another.
    [c.f., https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...136#post581136 and its Post#3]

    Microsoft discontinue support for Windows 7. You may have to change to Windows 10 and a fresh OS install is called for. Shall we all sit in a time bubble of Windows XP and MSIE because MagiXara, you assert, is lilywhite?

    All the above are not of my choosing and the choice of delivery model MagiXara has decided on transforms them into a problem also not of my choosing.

    A piece of paper only covers over the cracks.

    Again, Xara Desktop applications are incompatible with "fall back".

    Acorn
    Last edited by Acorn; 04 March 2020 at 05:53 PM.
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  2. #42
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @ ss-kalm

    that is still going on acorn has a thread about a table bug in ver 16 - Rob has just confirmed that the pending fix will not be available for those outside of active update service

    https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...060#post621060
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  3. #43
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    Ocala, FL, USA
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    387

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    @browj2
    I find it frustrating that once in a while, someone comes along and starts questioning the whole thing as if it's something new that they just discovered, bla bla bla, and we start the entire discussion again.
    I think this snarky comment is pointed at me since I started both threads. Let me clarify since you don't know me.
    It IS something new, just discovered for me. I have run version 11 on a beastly old computer. It was NOT under the 365 system. I was honestly confused by the major change from all the other versions I have used since 2004. Honestly frustrated at the lack of content.
    If Xara/Magix had done a better job of informing me of the program limitations (all content online, none installed with program and how the updates now function), I would not have bought a useless CD. I would not have posted. Would not have questioned. If you are so frustrated, why chime in, you can choose to ignore the thread and skip this and any other discussion of its kind.
    Unlike you, Acorn and Handrawn helped me to understand today's Xara. They understood HOW and WHY I was confused and helped to get me on a working path that fit my offline needs.


    @ ss-kalm
    Sadly, I expected we wouldn't get fixes during our 365 period. From @Xara's comments, I would definitely expect to lose them anyway on reinstall.

    Software reinstall can happen anytime 5 months. 2 years, 4 years... no telling. Caused by hardware failure, File corruption in program, support tells you to, purchase new or replace equipment. So knowing what you have and what you can reinstall is extremely important. It would be lovely if I don't have to reinstall this software any time soon, but if I do, I am prepared for it, thanks to this forum.
    -Samantha
    "Try to live your life so that you wouldn't be afraid to sell the family parrot to the town gossip." Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

  4. #44
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    Thumbs down Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by ss-kalm View Post
    My ONLY issue with this is BUG FIXES. Even if you are out of update service, you should still be able to get bug fixes for your current version.

    So if a bug is discovered in 15.0 and fixed in 15.0.3 you should get that, but what happens if a bug in 15.0 is fixed in 15.3.1 where 15.3 was a feature update. I particularly mention 15.0 due to the squash/stretch debacle ... I donb't like the idea that you can't get a bug fix because there was a feature update before it was discovered.
    And now we discover today that the Xara-crafted SmartShape Table bug of no working links after row three will be fixed (in v17.0) but there will be no bug fix. So SmartShape Table usage is kaput unless you pay for a "bug fix" by buying into the Update Service.

    Squishy/Squashy
    Loss of "promised" v12 Xara Slideshow Widget
    SmartShape Table Serious Bug
    "evolving" Text Inside
    "evolving" Smart Shapes
    Messed-up User Interface


    [If you are affected by any or all of the above, there is no help coming]

    Acorn
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  5. #45
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    nicely put
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  6. #46
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    Thumbs down Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Today, I raised a Magix support Ticket at 13:27 GMT and received a reply at 14:04. The earlier email advised 2 business days for a response. Kudos!

    Question
    Help > Deactivate program option when Update Service has expired.

    I have Xara Web Designer Premium 15.0.0.52288 DL x64 Nov 17 2017 installed on my
    main PC as device 1 and Xara Web Designer Premium 12.8.1.50861 DL x64 Jul 24 2017
    as device 2; both are registered under the same P3 serial number.

    If I deactivate either and then re-activate on the same machine, does this force
    me to "fall back " to version 12.4.1 for either?

    I am intending to re-install Windows 10 but retain all programs and data and I do
    not want to get into difficulties in doing this with a Xara product still
    activated.
    Answer
    On 04/03/2020 14:04, MAGIX Pro Support wrote:
    Dear ***,

    Thank you for your message.

    In case of re-installation you would indeed go back to the version 12 of the program.

    --
    Best regards,
    Marie Sevcikova

    MAGIX Software GmbH
    Postfach 500109
    01067 Dresden - Germany

    Managing Director: Klaus Schmidt, Jörg Stüber
    Commercial Register: Berlin Charlottenburg, HRB 127205

    http://www.magix.net
    Thank you MagiXara. Perhaps you could add this as a useful FAQ?

    Acorn

    P.S. @Kate once advised a v12.4.1 download would results in a v12.6.1 install but I have no confirmation of this.
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Michigan at the moment
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by browj2 View Post
    After all, it is your problem, not that of Magix/Xara if you have to reinstall.
    I have to disagree 16.3 worked fine one day and the next I had a screen requiring me to re-register the program. Tried that would not let me reregister said it was already registered to two machines one of which was the one I was on. Contacted support to unregister the machine I was on so I could register on same machine. Support unregistered it for me still would not register finally was suggested I reinstall worked like a charm, now it would allow me to register. Only problem was now I was back to the day I bought it. I did nothing to make it make me reregister it worked fine when I went to bed and when I got up in the morning is when this mess started. Magix/Xara's program messed up as nothing had changed from the night before when I was using it. Now how is that not Magix/Xara's problem?

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    England
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    1,130

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    I really don't like the 'fall back' installation issue either.

    This is my visual interpretation of the update service. I'm sure Xara/Magix could do something like this to summarise their update service for new users. I don't think they will though!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jon (Jono) Xara Photo & Graphic Designer 19.0.0.64329 DL x64 May 19 2022

  9. #49
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    Sep 2013
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    La Malbaie, Canada
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    695

    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    Quote Originally Posted by samrc View Post
    @browj2

    I think this snarky comment is pointed at me since I started both threads. Let me clarify since you don't know me.
    It IS something new, just discovered for me. I have run version 11 on a beastly old computer. It was NOT under the 365 system. I was honestly confused by the major change from all the other versions I have used since 2004. Honestly frustrated at the lack of content.
    If Xara/Magix had done a better job of informing me of the program limitations (all content online, none installed with program and how the updates now function), I would not have bought a useless CD. I would not have posted. Would not have questioned. If you are so frustrated, why chime in, you can choose to ignore the thread and skip this and any other discussion of its kind.
    Unlike you, Acorn and Handrawn helped me to understand today's Xara. They understood HOW and WHY I was confused and helped to get me on a working path that fit my offline needs.


    @ ss-kalm
    Sadly, I expected we wouldn't get fixes during our 365 period. From @Xara's comments, I would definitely expect to lose them anyway on reinstall.

    Software reinstall can happen anytime 5 months. 2 years, 4 years... no telling. Caused by hardware failure, File corruption in program, support tells you to, purchase new or replace equipment. So knowing what you have and what you can reinstall is extremely important. It would be lovely if I don't have to reinstall this software any time soon, but if I do, I am prepared for it, thanks to this forum.
    Samantha,

    Please read through this thread. It is one of many on the same subject.

    You are right, my comments were rather snarky. I fully understand that the Update Service was new to you. It was new to the others who started similar threads. My frustration lies in seeing the same discussion repeated many times with the same arguments. What I see is that almost everyone here chimes in with what is wrong with the Update Service, why they don't like it, etc., as though there were no advantages, and I seem to be the only one to point out what happened when it started and what the advantages were and are and why. That is why I post.

    To help make sure that more people see, read about, and understand the Update Service, a big button or link or tab pointing to the Update Service message should be at the top of the forum, thus hopefully avoiding repetitious discussion of the same topic. When someone brings up the topic, someone should point them to the sticky.

    A big button with a link to the definition of the Update Service should be near the top of every web page of each product on the Magix site that offers the Update Service. See my post in the other link.

    Quote Originally Posted by samrc View Post
    365 only makes sense if you can keep what you get during the 365 days.
    Gain updates, new features during the 365 day period. They are included if you have to reinstall.
    This makes sense. That's what I thought when I bought 16.

    With the current model, if you allow updates into your program during the 365 days, you are running trial versions that will expire (at time of reinstall).
    I do not see the point of allowing us to play with features we can not keep.
    Build your project with it and have to fall backward to purchase date.
    The project is not viable from that point forward because it depends on features that are no longer available.
    "Try selling MS Office where Tables no longer can be edited and see how long that last"
    EXACTLY.

    So better to treat it as install what you get at purchase (plus my 16.3 update) and just use it till you replace it with a more modern version.

    If new features are intriguing, bring in a new trial version of the software. As long as the trial install doesn't corrupt a current install.
    What you are saying is that you want it the way it was before the Update Service. Is that correct? Or do you want what I describe below - see * ?

    Prior to the Update Service, you got the version that you purchased, even if a new one came out a month later, limited content with the possibility to purchase more, and some bug patches up until a new version came out. No new features or version without paying again. No free access to all of the on-line content. The upgrade price was (about) the same as it is now.

    * What I see here is that those who complain about the Update Service want the current version, which is new (an upgrade) for you, new features and a new version should it come out before the 1 year expires, and to keep all of that, including access to on-line content that one may have forgotten to download before the renewal date (not by you but another user wanted that), even if you have to reinstall. As well, they want bug patches to continue even if you don't reinstall (I acknowledge the bug patch problem that needs some long-overdue attention). That would be absolutely great for us, getting two versions for the price of one plus the online content and keeping it even if we have to reinstall after not renewing, but bad for Xara/Magix. In this case, where is the incentive to renew?

    With the Update Service, you still get to keep the version (and patch) available when you purchased and you get free access to all of the online content that you can download and keep. Just for starters, that is a huge advantage. Add to that likely getting the next version and that you can use it without renewing so long as you don't have to reinstall is even more advantageous over the old system.

    In my opinion, we are better off with the Update Service program as is, knowing the limitations and pitfalls. I can live with the bug problem although I don't like it. Why would we want to lose those advantages?

    You stated that if you use the new features… Yes, you have de facto locked yourself into needing to renew should you have to reinstall. If they are important to you and if you do have to reinstall but are outside of the Update Service period, then you will need to renew. Under the old system, you would have had to pay again to get those new features anyways.

    Have you looked at and compared what you had as content previously with what you now get under the Update Service plan? Did you notice that what you had to pay extra for before is now included?

    Now, after you have reviewed the advantages of the Update Service, which model do you think is more advantageous for the same price, the old one or the current Update Service program?

    A question for those who don't like the Update Service program, and I address this only to those who actually have been in the Update Service program. For the same price, if there were two versions of Xara available, one with just the version available for purchase plus bug patches, along with the content that was available with version 11, but you had to pay for the same type of additional content as we did with version 11 (assume that you never downloaded the on-line content), the other with the Update Service with its advantages and limitations, which one would you purchase?

    One thing that I don't think has been mentioned, but you talked about a trial version, which means no Update Service. What happens now is that a new version overwrites the current version; for example, you cannot have versions 15 and 16 unless you have 2 separate accounts, as far as I know. Thus, you cannot have 16 plus a trial version of 17 when it comes out. This is a disadvantage.

    You are not alone with an old machine. I just bought mine recently it would seem, in December of 2010. I had a failing hard drive (C) a few years ago and then the update from Windows 7 to 10. Each time, I had to reinstall most of my software. I know that the computer is old and will need to be replaced at some point in the near future, and I know that doing so will cause problems with many of my programs and that there will be a cost. C'est la vie.

    I have tried to give you the other side of the story as to what you have gained with the Update Service. I told you about how I manage the Update Service now that I have gotten off of the yearly update merry-go-round. I hope that you understand these and the advantages, knowing that there are also problems and what they are.

    @handrawn

    About Soundforge, I said that it does not fit the Update Service model and why. Furthermore, there is a version called "Sound Forge Pro 365" - pure subscription, you don't pay, you don't play. Xara fits the Update Service model, with all of its aches and pains.

    @Acorn and @Gypsyjoe

    About having to reinstall, there are always exceptions, but I would hope that they would be rare. Software does not usually fail overnight for no reason. Something happened, gremlins in the computer maybe.
    John CB
    Xara DPX(19.0.1.65946)

  10. #50
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    Feb 2007
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    Default Re: No my question was not complete. thread was closed before my final comments

    I don't think I ever said there were no advantages to the update service

    what concerns me are the ways in which users can get locked into the update cycle - and personally the fact that you can loose something through no fault of your own to which end:

    About having to reinstall, there are always exceptions, but I would hope that they would be rare. Software does not usually fail overnight for no reason. Something happened, gremlins in the computer maybe.
    you not taking hardware failure on board then? - you do not understand that it is my right to reconfigure my hardware, and if the company penalises me for this, and they are the only company i can think of that does, it is shameful

    You stated that if you use the new features… Yes, you have de facto locked yourself into needing to renew should you have to reinstall. If they are important to you and if you do have to reinstall but are outside of the Update Service period, then you will need to renew. Under the old system, you would have had to pay again to get those new features anyways.
    missing the point- you would never have lost anything, or needed to renew to reacess...
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

 

 

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