Update Service Poll

**Stewart** · 12 September 2018, 06:43 PM

Voted...for the amount of good it will do given the general attitude.....

**Acorn** · 13 September 2018, 04:34 PM

@Egg, before I vote...

The Update Service is explained by Xara in its linked document here: https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...ting-Explained.
The Update Service offering must be understood within the context of the End User Licence Agreement that you accept by using the product: https://www.xara.com/us/eula/.
Xara builds and Magix delivers and handles problem tickets and communications and "offers", direct and bundles.

Consequently, there are three aspects that need to be considered for the Update Service: in cover, support and out of cover.

In cover, all that can be challenged is the frequency and content of version updates and problem management.
Out of cover, the EULA is explicit in that you lose on-line access.
Support can be broken down into incident handling (in cover) and version regression.

Your Poll places me in a quandary.
Yes I "understand" the Update Service; it is a subscription if you wish to retain fully functionality into the future. Unless you take direct measures, you can lose some functionality and content use. There is a choice, which neither Xara or Magix has been able to articulate readily.
The Update Service is not an "Option". It exists. Magix will not yield. I personally consider it to be flawed in its implementation but I am not averse to a subscription model.

Magix are in control. There are no UK Xara directors. Matt Bolton was parachuted in as Xara CEO to deliver Xara Cloud.
I would have preferred the Poll to be for marking Mark's (pun!) scorecard for his first year, ending 30 November 2018.
I believe that that would give him enough ammunition to go back to Magix and reclaim Xara Desktop application endorsement and vastly enhanced publicity.

Finally, as I can afford to update XDPX each year, I do so.
That said, I have stopped at XWDP12, which I only kept renewing to support TalkGraphics questions.

... my choice is therefore "Indifferent".

Acorn

P.S. What! No apostrophe in "Xaras"?

**ss-kalm** · 13 September 2018, 04:45 PM

Personally, I prefer the method whereby you BUY the right to use the software and get FREE bug fixes for that version as long as they issue them. The software manufacturer does all their updates, and releases the next version. Then you have the option of BUYING the right to use the new version if you think that the upgrades warrant you purchasing it.

This have a look and use the next versions updated features before you buy them is just smoke and mirrors.

I'd like to revert to the previous methodology, but that's not going to happen.

The bottom line is you vote with your wallet. Either you purchase/upgrade to the next version or you don't ... it really doesn't matter whether you like it or not, it's here.

**handrawn** · 13 September 2018, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Acorn

In cover, all that can be challenged is the frequency and content of version updates and problem management.
Out of cover, the EULA is explicit in that you lose on-line access.
Support can be broken down into incident handling (in cover) and version regression.

does not stop us arguing it is not a good idea - but since it is all magix and not xara this may no longer be the place to do it...

**Acorn** · 13 September 2018, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by handrawn

does not stop us arguing it is not a good idea - but since it is all magix and not xara this may no longer be the place to do it...

Xara are quite aware of our opinions.

I see there being three channels of communication:
The first is https://help.xara.com/ / https://support2.magix.com/customer/ - do note that the runaround we have endured for the last 10 months has changed (in the last week?) but I have no proof the FAQs exist or the incident reporting works.
The second is Matt Bolton direct: "If you have any questions about Xara and our plans, please feel free to contact me directly at any time. I can be reached at mattbolton@xara.com.".
The third is TalkGraphics. I am assured Dear Xara is read by Xara. I propose a Dear Xara Thread must be kept as a targeted issue with no deviation so Xara gets a clear message.

Acorn

**Egg Bramhill** · 13 September 2018, 09:28 PM

Sorry, I'm even more confused Acorn.

I see there being three channels of communication:

Firstly, do these three channels of communication speak in one voice, or three different voices?
Why three channels of communication in the first place?

The only channel of communication I use is Talk Graphics. Now I'm being invited to communicate via Magix (can't recall Kate's link) or directly to the CEO. Why?

At one time I purchased the latest revision of Xara. It worked without issue, I was required to understand virtually no conditions. However since the Update Service I now need an almost solicitors understanding of these conditions. TG forums are full of members asking for for guidance/understanding of their problems re the Update Service and why their access to the OCC has disappeared.....

Kate asked:

Is there something that you yourself do not understand on this matter Egg, some question that isn't answered by the Update Service document or that isn't clear? Or are you simply saying you don't like the Update Service, which is a different matter and not relevant or helpful in a thread which was about the particular question of bug fixes - and therefore not in itself reason to keep that thread open once the question was answered.

Yes, firstly I'm stating I absolutely detest the Update Service. No argument.

Secondly I'm stating that why should I as a customer/client need to wade through & understand a convoluted update agreement. This clarification has been ongoing through this thread and it's earlier prematurely closed threads.

Hello, I purchase software ..... I don't expect to enter into intricate software agreements and have features disappear after a time period.

Now I'm being asked to not only to express my concerns in Talk Graphics but to do so to Magix.com and directly to the Xara CEO.

This all reminds me of the multi-contracts purposely confusing deals created by such ISP's, building societies, banks and utilities.

**handrawn** · 13 September 2018, 10:10 PM

Hello, I purchase software ..... I don't expect to enter into intricate software agreements and have features disappear after a time period.

The answer Egg is to walk away... ok I expect you have a lot of investment in xara that will make that very difficult to do.. but it is either that or come to terms with the new way things are done... I don't think it's going to change, destopwise anyway; it is all driven by magix and this is the way they work, this is the way they make their money when they take over what another member called 'failing software' which xara was... else why ever did they hook up with magix in the first place... you look at the history of xara you see a really excellent vector program, but never enough sales to really make ends meet long term...

the answer from the company has already been made clear 'you don't have to buy it / renew it' - that is basic commercial tenet - we offer a product, you choose whether to buy it or go elsewhere, whichever you choose, have a nice day

I am just glad I never needed the online fluff

**Egg Bramhill** · 13 September 2018, 10:54 PM

The answer Egg is to walk away...

Well that is one possible solution HD. But not one I'd chose. I have many years invested in this software which has served me very well.

So I prefer to remain and fight my corner

**Egg Bramhill** · 13 September 2018, 10:59 PM

Hi Acorn, cross posting going on here

I'll get back tomorrow.

**Acorn** · 13 September 2018, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Egg Bramhill

Sorry, I'm even more confused Acorn.
[...]
Now I'm being asked to not only to express my concerns in Talk Graphics but to do so to Magix.com and directly to the Xara CEO...

Egg, all I was trying to point out is that the Dear Xara Forum is clearly a one-way street as Xara rarely engages in any response or dialogue. Magix need to hear the problems it has specifically caused with its poor communication and Matt needs to hear it directly without it all being filtered away into noise.

I am not asking anything of you, I was trying to advise the most impactful way of getting your concerns heard and addressed. So the answer to your first question is that there are three voices, none of them are our making.

Knowing about the EULAs ensures you can assert your rights. For instance, v15 EULA disappeared from the Desktop application Help; it is now on-line. The EULA is no longer under version control and can, and has been, changed by Magix without notification. Magix also does not appear to have acted on the GDPR legislation so, sadly, a Customer no longer just buy a product, they have entered a contract based on the EULA.

Acorn