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  1. #11

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    Quote Originally Posted by Artyboots View Post
    ...I imported it into Serif Page Plus 9, which corrected the alignment...
    Smartest thing I've read in these couple threads.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    Quote Originally Posted by Artyboots View Post
    ...It is so odd to find a DTP program without it. ...
    That's because XDP, which I love for what it excels at, ain't really a DTP application. Maybe in a wannabe but never realized sense, but such things are simply not its strengths.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    348

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    I have got to that unfortunate point in this document where I can't see it any more. Everything looks wrong. Things I liked, I now hate...

    Guys, what font size (in general) are you using for brochures? The client has nice branding, but the font that looks great on the web is a bit light for print. Perhaps I am just paranoid, now. It's just about readable at 12pt (Crimson Text), but that is usually giant for a brochure. What are your favourites for brochures, and what size do you use? ALL the Xara templates use 8pt. REALLY? What eyes do they have? This is a brochure for mature businesspeople. We don't want them to need an electron microscope.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    Crimson has more than the regular weight. Perhaps the semi-bold would work out better?

    Depends on the font re the size and weight. Also depends on how much text there is and the balance between headings, white space and illustrations. I don't mind if X text size leaves more white space. But if a given size of font at a particular weight starts crowding white space I'll begin knocking it back, often in half-point steps and see whether things improve and to what degree.

    Sometimes with being given page number requirements, the amount of copy, images and/or illustrations, there can be little choice if readability suffers.

    I usually print off a page or two and hang them on the wall beside my desk and don't look at the prints for a day if I have concerns. Sometimes I'll go ahead and impose and print off a copy and bind it. Then take my time and read through. But generally it's fine as designed and any changes would be nit-picking and not really make a difference.

    Mike

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    348

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    Thank you. You are right, of course. Just gone crazy now, having had to focus too closely on this thing.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada.
    Posts
    4,619

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    Ali, I don't believe that Acorn was trying to be anything other than helpful. I think that he honestly wanted to fully understand the issue, to be able to provide meaningful help.

    Not only that, it may be an advantage to anyone who has this same problem if we could try and come up with a solution without resorting to Serif Page Plus 9, which most of the community may not possess.

    And as I also cannot visualize your problem, Can you clarify what you needed to achieve?
    Keith
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    There are 10 types of people in this world .... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    348

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    Hello. I was joking. I wasn't remotely offended.

    I managed to sort out the alignment by following Gary's advice.

    However, I was ashamed to send the PDFs to the client for approval. The fonts looked terrible, no matter what export setting, and it was converting hyphens randomly to black rectangles.

    Xara is fantastic. I love it so much. But it is making my life hard at the moment. It does not like doing DTP.

    Have no idea why it is destroying fonts on pdf export, do you? Was going to try to flatte, but couldn't remember how. This is the first time I have had this problem.

    Night night all x

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Harwich, Essex, England
    Posts
    21,895

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    Hi Ali,

    An example web/xar helps us all otherwise we're merely guessing
    Egg

    Intel i7 - 4790K Quad Core + 16 GB Ram + NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1660 Graphics Card + MSI Optix Mag321 Curv monitor
    + Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB SSD + 232 GB SSD + 250 GB SSD portable drive + ISP = BT + Web Hosting = TSO Host

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,130

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    There are quite a few examples online showing how baseline grids work and the important part they play in good page design. It's seems almost inconceivable that they are still missing from Xara desktop design apps. They've been requested (and ignored!) in the 'Dear Xara' for years.

    Artyboots, not sure if this helps, but it is possible to create a visual baseline grid to manually keep text aligned, although I've not done this myself for real, other than this quick experiment. (see screenshot below). I suspect it will still mean a lot of fiddling about particularly when adding subheadings, although styles with the appropriate before and after paragraph spacing might be useful for those.

    Anyway just a thought that might help with any alignment guesswork. I've not done any serious DTP work for years (back to the PageMaker days (Aldus PageMaker, that is!) but I have briefly played around with Scribus, an Open Source (and Free) Desktop Publishing software. And that definitely has an excellent baseline grid feature. (also see screen shot below)

    Here the steps I tried:

    1. Style the text and spacing as desired
    2. Make a horizontal line grid by blending two straight lines adjusting the spacing between the lines by either stretching the blend group or by adjusting the number of steps in the blend. You can then lock this to the page or copy the Guides layer (but you'll need to convert the blend to editable shapes to see all the in-between lines)
    3. You can then fine tune the line spacing of your text style to fit the grid by changing the line spacing or the value of the baseline shift.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Jon (Jono) Xara Photo & Graphic Designer 19.0.0.64329 DL x64 May 19 2022

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    SW England
    Posts
    17,746

    Default Re: Align column text across cols

    So a "baseline" is nothing more than:

    As a designer producing columned copy
    I want text across columns on adjacent pages to appear as if all of it had been written straight across
    So that on inserting other objects or styles that repels text then the vertical alignment of the text is not displaced

    Forgive me but Xara does a very good job of achieving the correct alignment when there are no repelling objects if Columns are selected.
    Equally, the addition of a Shape, image or Text Box, with So a "baseline" is nothing more than:

    As a designer producing columned copy
    I want text across columns on adjacent pages to appear as if all of it had been written straight across
    So that on inserting other objects or styles that repels text then the vertical alignment of the text is not displaced

    Forgive me but Xara does a very good job of achieving the correct alignment when there are no repelling objects if Columns are selected.
    Equally, the addition of a Shape, image or Text Box, with Repel text under all seems to understand the concept of a "baseline"; if not, the repelling dimensions can be adjusted.

    The areas where things go awry are in Paragraph & Character styles and embedded graphics.

    For Paragraph styles, it is is a simple operation to apply a suitable Baseline Shift.
    If a heading runs over two lines that the line spacing or another style might be required.
    The principle here is not to adjust the underlying text but make the style fit as Jonopen describes.

    A Character style, say a Drop Capital, effectively upsets the remainder of the column or until a paragraph is affected by a similar change.

    I cannot comment on Embedded Objects as I have found a Xara bug in XDPXv15.1 that prevents me checking further.

    For the limited printing press work I have done as a hobby setting up a page of lead is far harder.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If I have missed any complexity, I apologise but sticking one's head over the parapet invariably means there's someone out there taking aim.
    The OP asked for workarounds so let's better what I have proposed.

    Acorn

    Fishyfishy.xar
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

 

 

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