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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canton, GA
    Posts
    666

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Ok - I'm here to drop my few cents in the fountain that is this thread.

    Said earlier (maybe Acorn, maybe someone else): Flip the Update Service to we can keep all updates in the year, forever.

    For the 365 model, this is the most important thing to me. Reality is that each year, provided that the updates over the course of the year have been worthwhile, I will upgrade both of my licenses - and on and on. Whether on the 365 model or the year-to-year one, it's likely that the upgrade is going to have something in it that is worthwhile to my business.

    We do website design and development. I use Joomla to realize our designs by building custom templates from Xara designs. I use Xara to export the pieces and parts and assemble them in the Joomla template-ing, using the Joomlart T3 framework. It's very efficient.

    We rarely use Xara to produce an end-product website (though it happens here and again), but we provide mockups of the designs with it and having a somewhat living version (with hovers on menus and moving graphics or the occasional parallax demo), versus the static images, and sometimes just grey-box outlines that a lot of competitors use, gives us a definite advantage. It also makes it a lot easier to get from design into actual development when the client SEES what a slider looks like - that images will move in this section or that. Maybe not exactly like the final version, but a good representation. This lets them give the sign-off a lot faster than if we require them to use their imagination. If they were "creative minds" they might just be making their own websites!

    Simple additions, like the Pixabay integration, add a TON to our productivity. Yeah, we could go to pixabay's website and get the images, copy them, paste them or download them or whatever, but being able to just click a number of colorful images into a layout quickly saves a pile of time for getting a design concept across quickly. This feature alone has saved us enough design/layout time in the past several months that the profit of that time compared to the pricing of the designs has probably covered the cost of the upgrade for both of us pretty readily. And the 365 model allowed me to have this enhancement without having to wait until spring to get it.

    I don't like that the features will go away though, for many of the same reasons that folks are posting here. I think that my commitment to the year of updates should allow me to keep that year of updates if I opt not to continue to pay. If Xara wants my money next year, they should prove that THIS year was worth it.

    The way they do that is with trust and production. When this whole 365 thing started, I pointed out how Cakewalk (producer of music software, Sonar, specifically) is handling their "subscription" (*if you will let me call it that). Every single month, they have a release of new features and bug fixes and documentation to go along with that release. It keeps their customers engaged. Are there unhappy clients there too? Of course - there will always be. But Cakewalk has typically come through on delivery of new stuff that they said that they would do. And they have been doing it now for at least 2 years straight.

    Take a look at the ongoing list of updates that are done here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SON...ts-New#2017.01

    It's an impressive list to scroll down that page and see how many enhancements have happened. Scroll up from that point and you see what they currently have "in the oven". It doesn't hurt that they had a short period of "lifetime updates" as a bit of a combination of loyalty reward and cash grab, so I get updates from now until December of 2038 (at least).

    To me, this method of keeping people informed of what's going on and doing it consistently is how Xara will win over the loyal users and pick up new ones. With Cakewalk, this isn't 3 new features once or twice - this is several new features EVERY month. And some of the features are significant. Some are things for the new folks, like templates and starting points, and simpler getting started menus and such (that the old guard complain about because they don't need them), but some are also deep features that people have wanted for a long time and bug fixes for things that have tormented people through older versions that are VERY welcome by the users who have been around for a while.

    I suppose what I'm saying is that you have to look outside of just the graphics market. There are a lot of other areas where software is going down this same path and there is a lot to be learned about what works and what puts companies out of business.

    Overall, I think that the 365 program is a good idea, so you can put me in the positive column. With a few tweaks, more updates, more communication, and a better "your updates stick" if you were around when they came out, this could be a very successful endeavor. Without these things, Xara could easily become "that obscure program that no one has ever heard of". I can tell you that in this area - North Metro Atlanta - not one single person I know has ever heard of Xara and when I bring it up, I have to defend it because it is unrecognized and immediately considered unprofessional, non-standard, a toy. When I show it off, lots of people think it's great, but it is not getting noticed. Period.

    And - shameless plug: If anyone needs Joomla help - let me know. I was the first Certified Joomla Administrator in the United States as of October 2016, so I think I know a pretty decent amount about it and how to utilize Xara Designer Pro and Joomla together to get quality websites out with a ton of functionality.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lam, Bavaria-Germany
    Posts
    804

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Quote Originally Posted by slavelle View Post
    I can tell you that in this area - North Metro Atlanta - not one single person I know has ever heard of Xara and when I bring it up, I have to defend it because it is unrecognized and immediately considered unprofessional, non-standard, a toy. When I show it off, lots of people think it's great, but it is not getting noticed. Period.

    And - shameless plug: If anyone needs Joomla help - let me know. I was the first Certified Joomla Administrator in the United States as of October 2016, so I think I know a pretty decent amount about it and how to utilize Xara Designer Pro and Joomla together to get quality websites out with a ton of functionality.
    Hi slavelle,

    here the same. I think I'm the only, if not the only one in Germany, graphic designer and offset printer master who works with a non standard software. I had multiple requests to Xara/Magix about there sales policy and reputation on the graphic market. I don't got one answer. They stay in a corner to be, You call it, a toy. And when herein commes a grahic artist from Xara and call us all about to have fun and have no information about what will be the next step with Xara, thi is not a professinal behavior to us who use this program for our work. I say it in a other thread: not the annual fee is aproblem but the uncertainty where the journey goes. Clear answers from Xara or Magix could make decisions for me/us easier.

    If I skip into Joomla I'll contact You.

    Servus Ernie

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Crestone, CO. USA
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Not really impressed, lots of things don't work for me like some widgets, crashes when I click right on images with drop shadows, not having clipart, slideshows etc, on my computer... online catalog is a waste of time, I may see if I can downgrade...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    La Malbaie, Canada
    Posts
    699

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Hi Rodney,

    Did you not receive a DVD when you purchased the program? I did and I don't recall asking for it separately, it just came in the mail. If you have the DVD, then install the content and you will have probably 90% of what is on-line. The rest you can download to the local gallery. Or, as I did on my laptop (no DVD reader), I downloaded everything in bulk.
    John CB
    Xara DPX(19.0.1.65946)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    168

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Damn this is not making me feel good. The reason I switched to Xara is because Adobe CC is a downright rip off. I like the all in one aspect of DPX with the exception of no code editor. (I would really appreciate a code editor) Adobe CC nickle and dimes you (more like 10 and 20 dollar bills you) for everything. I don't mind a yearly fee at a decent price but Xara's gotta add something to the pot. Mind you, I don't need an update every month of useless crap either. Efficiency is the key. Fixing bugs on the regular would be great and an upgrade every 3 to 6 months would suffice. Xara/Magix please don't follow in footsteps of Native Instruments but Serato would be a better model to follow.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Well, I certainly like the software, but it could be so much better, with just some more open communication.
    I am still running X11, as I haven't felt comfortable about upgrading. Normally, I upgrade every year, but decided it wasn't worth it this time.
    So I went out looking at alternatives - nothing is as good FTW - Xara is still the best all round vector and photo editor, which can also build websites.

    The pricing is a bit like a subscription model, but you have to pay all up front.
    I wouldn't mind if it was a subscription model at a fair price. Especially if it would allow me to install on more devices. With Office 365, I can install on up to 5 devices.
    I use many different devices [work pc, work laptop which is connected to a big screen tv, work surface pro - for customer presentations, home yoga notebook for casual use and home 17" gaming laptop] and it would be handy to have Xara on all of them; even if I have to logon to a server to ensure that it's me using the software.

    I really hope they keep enhancing the product, as it's starting to fall behind a bit in the UX compared to apps like Sketch and Affinity

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    La Malbaie, Canada
    Posts
    699

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpdp View Post
    I wouldn't mind if it was a subscription model at a fair price. Especially if it would allow me to install on more devices. With Office 365, I can install on up to 5 devices.
    I use many different devices .....
    MS Office 365 has single computer and 5 computer licenses. You take the appropriate one. The subscription is a lot less than buying outright, but when the subscription runs out, you pay or you have nothing.

    Xara allows you to install and have activated up to two computers at the same time. You can install on more, but you simply deactivate one and activate another when needed.

    As for pricing, you are normally paying the upgrade price for Xara, not the full price. When renewal comes around, if you don't pay you still have the program working and all of the features that were available at the time of last payment. Big difference from the MS Office subscription.
    John CB
    Xara DPX(19.0.1.65946)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    La Malbaie, Canada
    Posts
    699

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    @slavelle,

    Good points. Magix needs to more work in the update and communications area. Magix and Xara now publish their updates since the 365 programs began, so there is hope.

    However, the point about keeping the new features if you don't subscribe and your argument that you will renew just to receive future new features will not work.

    The old system:

    V12 = new features since V11
    V13 = V12 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed
    V14 = V13 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed
    .....and so on.

    The new system by theoretical version number( what I mean by this is a theoretical version number after each 365 day period):
    V12 = new features since V11 plus an advance on new features
    V13 = V12 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed plus an advance on new features
    V14 = V13 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed plus an advance on new features
    .....and so on.


    Thus, what you got when you paid is what you have. If you don't like the new features, then don't renew.

    When you purchase the first time, you are getting all of the features available at that date plus an advance on future new features over the course of the year which you can keep (if you don't have to reinstall) but for which you have not really paid. You properly get to keep them when you renew. That is the way it is.

    If you could indefinitely keep any new features that came out before the renewal date, why would you renew? There is nothing to be gained by renewing except possibly getting unknown new features. If Xara were to change the system as you suggest, I am quite sure that all of the people who have complained here about not being able to keep the new features that they received during the year after the purchase/renewal, would now be the first ones to agree that there would be no reason to renew since there were no new features available that they didn't already have, but they would want a solemn promise from Xara that they would receive new features that they wanted and liked. And, they would want to see these new features and try them out before renewing, which would be impossible. And they would want to know when the features would come out. And then they would say that there is no point in renewing right away, but that it would be better to wait until the new features actually came out. I am sure that they would come up with other arguments for not renewing as well as the above.

    The bottom line is, what you got when you paid, is what you have. Period. Anything else is a bonus.

    What you and others are asking does not make good business sense.

    John
    John CB
    Xara DPX(19.0.1.65946)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    SW England
    Posts
    17,902

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    Given: A site built with a Xara version with preview / advance updates
    And: Bug fixes to date
    When: The update guarantee service lapses
    And: Your version reverts to what you bought
    Then: Site features may not be supported
    And: Application will be as buggy as at purchase point
    And: No downloads for on-line content are available
    And: No search is possible for what you may have squirrelled away

    Discuss.

    Acorn
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  10. #10

    Default Re: How do you feel about the 365 Program?

    These last three observations above, are very to-the-point.
    I agree with them whole heartedly and. +1!

    What you pay for you should be able to keep.
    R_o_n _a_l _d __C. __D_u_k_e

    x a r a . c o m..a r t i s t s ..g a l l e r y

    Xara's Facebook

    Xara Designer Pro X 16, Xara 3D7 Web Designer

 

 

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