We are all cool. I have used joomla, wordpress and serif and lately been using xara. It really up to what kind of client and their needs. Usually during the first discussion it is best to ask if they are going to make any updates or not. I know majority will say yes, but from my 10 years experience the ones that say they will, never did or did it so bad that the site had to be scraped and fixed. I have clients that want to pay a designer/web guy to do their work and they have no desire to do anything with their site. But that also can changed, the only time that changed was when they hear that there are others out there that charge fraction of cost to update their site. At that time I wish them all the best and point them to the code on their server. From then on, they get no support or assistance from me. I have a friend who states in his agreement that he owns the code and design of the site and if any client wishes to do their own changes, then they can do so by making a new site with whomever they have choosen to work with. I kinda like that idea. Oh and he also works with wordpress, so in reality he owns the design and code rights.