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  1. #41

    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    Quote Originally Posted by katemoir
    Mike, what I'm wondering is which of the common alternatives you would prefer - the old system (no access to next year's features until next year) or an Adobe-like subscription (get new features as you go along but lose all installed versions completely at the end of 365 days)?
    There are other alternatives, such as the scheme Corel is using for the last couple versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by katemoir
    We are trying to find a way of offering some of the advantages of subscription without actually making it a subscription, while still making it profitable enough for us to carry on doing anything at all!
    I have two small businesses. I fully understand what it is like competing in today's ever changing marketplace. And to be completely accurate, I am happy that the software side of one of my businesses that ran from 1989 through 2005 is no longer a part of the business. I cannot fathom what that would be like in 2016.
    Quote Originally Posted by katemoir
    Now I have a little suspicion that you will not be completely happy with any answer I give, but fyi the reversion will include any bug fixes we've issued for that version.
    No, this statement does make quite a difference. It's not fully what I would think is the forthright thing to do, but at least the application fixes are a great start to that. That we have a difference on what the forthright thing is, is what it is.

    I would further expect that because the 365 subscription is being touted as a future cost/benefit as regards any added features/functions/content during the 365-day period, loosing those things at a potential reinstall for any reason past the subscription is wrong. In other words, I am not buying a license to a semi-static product as per the past. I would be buying a license to a semi-fluid product of unadvertised features/content. I would be trusting that Xara does add features/content during that 365-day period. If then those features/content which were valid during my 365-day period were withdrawn at any point in the future for any reason, then I believe that is wrong.

    You mention Adobe CC. When Adobe introduced CC at the CS6 cycle, both perpetual and subscription licenses were available. I chose the perpetual license. What Adobe didn't do when CC became the only path forward was to remove features from CS6. My CS6 is the same as when they stopped updating it, which wasn't until the 2nd year of CC. Point being, that even though there was a single new feature added during CS6, it wasn't removed no matter how many times I have deactivated, reinstalled and reactivated it on new HDDs and computers.

    Corel has both what they term "standard" and "premium" subscriptions for their perpetual licensees. (Terms were changed with CDX8 that was recently released.) The Standard subscription is a "static" product with the exception of bug fixes. The Premium subscription allows for new features to be rolled in during the release cycle (which is a longer release cycle than Xara's releases). If I pay for a year's Premium subscription, then cancel it after one year, then move to a new computer, all those features remain in-place upon a new installation. I don't loose them, the software doesn't revert to as purcahsed. (BTW, I also do not pay Corel's Premium fee, either.)

    As I mentioned, we evidently have a disagreement on what is fair or ethical. For myself, loosing something in XDP will not have quite the impact as it does for persons using the web capabilities--God knows that there are not many drawing enhancements now and I cannot imagine these will be any more swiftly in the future. But if a new web widget appears and is used, then a reinstall following the expiration of a first install, I can see that having ramifications. It then more or less becomes a forced-upgrade, unless in-place widgets would work in that scenario.

    I do wish Xara the best. I do want to see Xara succeed. I also want better print stuff--even certain things that do not work (and have not worked) properly to be fixed/added. But other than skipping XDP version 10 out of protest concerning OT feature support, I have upgraded since my first version as a means of demonstrably showing my trust and faith in Xara.

    This will be my last post on this subject. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. Releases are stressful and I suspect I have added to the stress.

    Mike

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    I received a message from the Magix German forum about the new subscription method for other Magix programs, which is the same as for Xara, and he indicated that it may be possible to save the updates, which are in temporary files, so long as you save them before they are deleted, which I presume is automatic once the update has completed its cycle. This is awkward, but a possibility. Perhaps Xara can comment on this. Can we save the update files? And then if we have to do a re-install after the 365 period, assuming that the subscription was not renewed, can we just execute the update files?

    I fully understand why Magix/Xara is going to this subscription method and it has advantages that we have already discussed in a separate thread, but the possibility of losing updates due to a re-install is definitely not right.

    If one doesn't renew after a year, can one climb back on board, say 6 months after the end of the subscription period, without having to pay the full price of the program?

    My friend noted that the German community is quite concerned about the same point being discussed here, for all of Magix' programs.

    Thanks,
    John

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    Quote Originally Posted by mwenz View Post
    Releases are stressful and I suspect I have added to the stress.
    Mike
    Mike, you have summarised the issues perfectly

    I don't want, in any circumstances, to lose any bought capability - Xara, you are forcing us into a continual top-up scheme. If the cost was a sensible fraction of the original purchase price, it might work. My current feeling is I can do without the hassle.
    I don't want to sit by my computer clicking and downloading content; so an early CD purchase doesn't work either.

    By all means freeze updates after the 365-day cut-off.
    I do not think this reversion is sensible. Let us keep what we paid for.
    I would not also expect to pay for ongoing bug fixes - they are bugs and I would expect the responsibility to lie with the company.

    I have always considered my yearly upgrades to be of worth to the company. This approach makes me question my loyalty.
    On loyalty, not to have engaged with Gary P is another of your mistakes.

    Finally, not having keeping up with the latest versions means my contributions to TalkGraphics are going to diminish.

    Acorn
    Acorn - installed Xara software: Cloud+/Pro+ and most others back through time (to CC's Artworks). Contact for technical remediation/consultancy for your web designs.
    When we provide assistance, your responses are valuable as they benefit the community. TG Nuggets you might like. Report faults: Xara Cloud+/Pro+/Magix Legacy; Xara KB & Chat

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    possible to save updates currently - it's geekish though, you need to make sure the process stops to ask for [admin] permission to proceed once they are downloaded and then copy the files from the temp location; they are not in a meaningfully named folder as such so you need to know what to look for.... if you let it complete first they are gone...
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    Saving updates - only those who are in the know would likely do so, thus it is not an acceptable solution. It was just mentioned in the German forum.

    Presently, Magix has all of the purchased programs in the user account, and the user can download a copy at any time. Once downloaded and installed, there is usually a second large download required from within the program, that contains all of the content, plugins, etc. Then there is the update (patch) and the latest is always available in the user account. With the new subscription method, Magix/Xara would have to keep track of all updates (new features) that the user acquired during the subscription period and make these available to the user, permanently. The latest bug patch would also have to be available. This is the only way that I can see that it could work. Then if the user has to reinstall after the end of the subscription period and did not subscribe for another year, at least the program and the "purchased" upgrades would be available to be downloaded. Surely this could be done.

    John

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    Quote Originally Posted by browj2 View Post
    Saving updates - only those who are in the know would likely do so..
    point I was making
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    If you don't renew after the year is up... They should send you the DVD with the latest version you paid for including the updates/patches that came out during that year.

    As a parting gift of some sort

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    Shouldn't need to wait for a CD to come in the mail. I think that the software shouldn't revert at all It should just stop receiving updates after 365 days unless the license is renewed and access to the content catalogue stops too.

    And It shouldn't matter if your computer crashes, or you need to reinstall the software if your license is current it should install the most current version. If your license has expired it should install the last updated version you had before expiration.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My current Xara software: Designer Pro 365 12.6

    Good Morning Sunshine.ca | Good Morning Sunshine Online(a weekly humorous publication created with XDP and exported as a web document) | Angelize Online resource shop | My Video Tutorials | My DropBox |
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  9. #49
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    Quote Originally Posted by angelize View Post
    Shouldn't need to wait for a CD to come in the mail. I think that the software shouldn't revert at all It should just stop receiving updates after 365 days unless the license is renewed and access to the content catalogue stops too.

    And It shouldn't matter if your computer crashes, or you need to reinstall the software if your license is current it should install the most current version. If your license has expired it should install the last updated version you had before expiration.
    I very much doubt Xara will listen to yours, and many other users 'common sense' comments already posted. The only way I can see there being a chance of a 'U' turn is for the majority to boycott upgrading to 365, and maybe then they might just reconsider their position. Microsoft did with their Xbox one and their original decision to have the consoles needing a constant connection to the internet. An extreme reaction from the user base did the trick.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Just Released: A New Version of Web Designer

    if your license is current it should install the most current version.

    There's no dispute about that.

    If your hard drive was OK, you would have access to all updates up to the point your subscription expired. You could carry on using that software indefinitely.

    The problem is what happens if you don't renew your licence and your hard drive dies or you buy a new computer. What are you left with? What version will Xara let you install?

    The answer, I think most people would expect, is that you should be allowed to install the version that you had at the time the subscription expired. Doing that might prove a bit of a logistical problem to administer. Doing anything else leaves people feeling as though they've paid for something they can't use anymore.

    Currently, in the non-subscription model, you'd be re-downloading the last release that you purchased and all the available updates to that.

    It's a tricky thing.





 

 

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