Thanks Frances will use and also digest(not the right word). When did we have the ability to keep a line a vector shape after "converting line to shape"? I know Phil said it was going to happen and the last time I tried it still was a bitmap with handles & nodes. I take it that only happens with the new art brushes from Xara after conversion. I wish they had made more of a noise about this fix when it came out as I still use Illy for my cartoons because of this. Gee thanks for the info and I mean that will save me a bunch of time.