Will Xara Ever Create a DTP Program (like PagePlus)?

[Peter Prewett]

There was another Acorn product called Ovation Pro this was converted to Windows and it still available, it is a pity that Impression was not converted.

I use it in preference to Xara Pro for writing as it loads immediately, it is capable of full DTP and have published a number of books using the software.

Xara has a long way to go to have something as capable as Impression Pro or Ovation Pro.

The point is as Xara has grown so has the loading time and its complexity. Perhaps an Impression windows version could be produced and linked with Xara Pro rather than be incorporated.

Peter

[tonylondon]

For me the drawing tools are paramount. However as Xara have widened the program to add peripheral features such as web design (which I never use) and photo enhancement (which I use rarely) it was logical (to me anyway) to expand its DTP features too, as they have recently started to do. I welcome it. However not at the expense of drawing tools. So Phil gets my qualified vote.

[Gamerprinter]

What I'd like to see Xara be able to do is prepare a single page, say for two column layout, then open a multi-page Word document, select all the text, copy to clipboard, then paste that into the prepared Xara double column layout and paste the text into the column placeholder, and have Xara automatically generate all the necessary duplicates of the first page, until all the pasted text is used. Thus I can select 90,000 words from a word document and automatically create a 60 page document in Xara. Now I might further change some of the titles to larger header fonts or open the text with character returns so that I can place illustrations, charts and tables, which further generates additional pages as spaces are laid open for content insertions. Auto page numbers might be helpful as well, but I am generally comfortable hand placing page numbers directly.

Right now I copy large enough amounts of Word text to generate more than what is needed for a single column of a single page. When the text overflows beyond the boundries of the text block, I select the overflowed text, cut it to the clipboard then place it in the next column. The problem here, is if I didn't select all the text overflow, I might lose text (not fully selected) and accidentally have gaps in the writing.

Xara as a DTP needs to be able to do that at least.

[DiscoverIT]

I recall back in the dim and distant past, a certain company by the name of Computer Concepts producing an excellent range of graphics and DTP software for the Acorn Archimedes/RISC PC range of computers. Artworks was the most famous, the ancestor of Designer Pro and Xara's other graphics programs. But there was also Impression Publisher/Impression Plus, a fantastic document processor/DTP program, which was one of my favourite pieces of software on the Acorn machines.

I wholeheartedly agree with Phil on this and would be the first to buy this. My other favourite piece of software was PipeDream by Colton Software

[angelize]

I'd love to see more DTP capabilities in DP like full support for Open Type glyphs for example. but where I'd like to see them implement a real DTP workspace is in the Online Designer

This online version of Xara products is in it's infancy but already it works cross browser which means it runs on all platforms! I've even run it on my Android tablet.

[mwenz]

...but where I'd like to see them implement a real DTP workspace is in the Online Designer

This online version of Xara products is in it's infancy but already it works cross browser which means it runs on all platforms! I've even run it on my Android tablet.

Have you thought about the work-flow for a publication larger than a one-page flier?

The last book I did used assets totaling 5.9 gigabytes. At a page count greater than 600 pages, the PDF was 1.2 gigs for the print establishment. The 32-page catalog supplement I just produced had assets totaling 238 megabytes in 79 images, PDF was 200 something megs. A manual I recently did that only has 96 dpi screen shots, 232 (unique) original files.

I cannot imaging taking the time uploading those assets to use them in a publication. Then for each edit or revision have them basically download to my computer again (images/graphics on-line are downloaded to temp folders).

That's just one of the issues of an on-line layout application.

[Charles Moir]

What software did you use to edit and layout that book, out of interest?

Xara Designer can cope with decent multi-page 'long document' cases - we use it internally for 50+ page documents regularly. But 600 page books, with 6Gb of assets is something else though.

I'm interested to know what the most important DTP features you think are missing? We know quite a few of course, and are working on them. The latest V11 release, for example, included really nice and pretty advanced hyphenation system that was top of most people's wish list for DTP use. Text styles, text frames with over-flowing story support (linked to anywhere in the document), DPS spreads, automatic page creation, multi-column support, great Word/and RTF import, great PDF export, repel around shapes and alpha bitmaps - these are all supported and basic DTP requirements.

As the designer of Computer Concept's Impression and one of the principle programmers on that project, I'm interested to know what features you regard are missing, specifically the showstopper features that makes Xara Designer not a good DTP solution?

There are a whole bunch of 'nice to have' features' we'd like to have, but we're not aware of too many showstopper issues that makes typical DTP work difficult.

[Charles Moir]

What I'd like to see Xara be able to do is prepare a single page, say for two column layout, then open a multi-page Word document, select all the text, copy to clipboard, then paste that into the prepared Xara double column layout and paste the text into the column placeholder, and have Xara automatically generate all the necessary duplicates of the first page, until all the pasted text is used. Thus I can select 90,000 words from a word document and automatically create a 60 page document in Xara.....
Xara as a DTP needs to be able to do that at least.

It can do exactly that already. Several ways.

1) Create your basic page text frame layout. Be it one frame, or multiple linked frames etc.
2) Right click on the overflow indicator of the text frame and select 'create pages automatically'

Now when you paste text into the frame or columns, it will create as many pages copying the page / frame layout of this page, as required.

You can see this working by just opening the blank 'A4 1-column' document from the File > new menu, and pasting into that. You'll get a multi-page document with all the text in it. Select the column control on the Text InfoBar and you can make it all 2 or 3 columns with a click. Oh and this also shows auto-page numbers working as you asked for. Use the 'Insert > Page number...' option to insert an automatic page number into any text story - or as a floating page number to appear anywhere on the page. With the latest release you can also choose the start number for this.

You can import the text from Word several ways. Either just select-all in Word, and paste into Xara. You'll be prompted to import text one of several ways. Choose Rich Text Format as that retains all the Style information including inline graphics etc. Or select 'unformatted text' to have it pasted into whatever text Style you use in Xara (but not graphics come across)

Or just open the Word document (or RTF file) directly into Xara as a separate document (short cut is to drag 'n' drop the .doc / docx file into the Xara title bar to do this). Now you have the Word document open you can copy / paste text between Xara docs as necessary. For more complex Word documents with tables and multiple separate text flows or floating text frames etc, the latter method is best as you can select exactly what you want to copy and paste. or of course just copy / paste the right parts of the

[mwenz]

What software did you use to edit and layout that book, out of interest? ... But 600 page books, with 6Gb of assets is something else though.

InDesign CS6.

Xara Designer can cope with decent multi-page 'long document' cases - we use it internally for 50+ page documents regularly...

This is so undefined that comment is difficult.

I'm interested to know what the most important DTP features you think are missing? We know quite a few of course, and are working on them...

I'll trade you lists. Otherwise it would feel like I would be doing too much duplication of effort. I may get time due to boredom and so I'll think about making a list. Besides, I don't think my heart would be into it. I think we would have a fundamental difference of opinion about publication layout to begin with, much less as to whether long document publication features can even be expedient to use in a drawing application.

The latest V11 release, for example, included really nice and pretty advanced hyphenation system that was top of most people's wish list for DTP use. Text styles, text frames with over-flowing story support (linked to anywhere in the document), DPS spreads, automatic page creation, multi-column support, great Word/and RTF import, great PDF export, repel around shapes and alpha bitmaps - these are all supported and basic DTP requirements.

InDesign, QuarkXpress, PagePlus, VivaDesigner, etc., all have a pen tool, node editing, basic and complex shapes creations. Does that make them an efficient means of vector drawing creation?

Your above list are all great things. Some of them are "immature" in implementation at best, though. Text style creation (both paragraph and character), usage and manipulation, for instance. Just compare that single feature to an actual layout application's creation, usage and manipulation of text styles. There are important functional differences between XDP's use of such things and any decent layout application's use of text styles.

As the designer of Computer Concept's Impression and one of the principle programmers on that project, I'm interested to know what features you regard are missing, specifically the showstopper features that makes Xara Designer not a good DTP solution?

Define DTP. Since the early 1990s, that term has morphed into quite a few areas.

There are a whole bunch of 'nice to have' features' we'd like to have, but we're not aware of too many showstopper issues that makes typical DTP work difficult.

As I mentioned, if I get time.

But the straw-man in the corner is the word "showstopper." No matter the task at hand, most issues--and one will always face issues on a given publication in any application--will always have a work-around. In that sense, very little can ever be a show-stopper issue.

Mike

[Acorn]

Ah, I remember nested tables before MS got in on the act.

Acorn