Browsers

[Erik Heyninck]

I am very interested, and I'm probably not the only one, which browsers you target when developing your sites. I'm not talking about local intranet sites, but sites that everyone can visit.
Do you limit yourselves to IE and NN, or do you include others (I use and prefer Opera for example).
And then a second question: what about the websafe colours? They are necessary for 256 colour monitors, but what about more recent ones with millions of colours? They never are identical, as Mac and PC do have different gamma values...?
And the screen resolution: do you target 800x600, smaller, bigger?

All these questions may launch an interesting debate on this forum.

[Erik Heyninck]

I am very interested, and I'm probably not the only one, which browsers you target when developing your sites. I'm not talking about local intranet sites, but sites that everyone can visit.
Do you limit yourselves to IE and NN, or do you include others (I use and prefer Opera for example).
And then a second question: what about the websafe colours? They are necessary for 256 colour monitors, but what about more recent ones with millions of colours? They never are identical, as Mac and PC do have different gamma values...?
And the screen resolution: do you target 800x600, smaller, bigger?

All these questions may launch an interesting debate on this forum.

[Jen Worden]

Hi Erik ...

Good questions all and I hope they do initiate conversation!

I ususally design using IE5 - this after years and years of stubbornly refusing to use MS products, I was used to Netscape and I really didn't like IE. Until I started using CSS. And saw what Netscape was doing - but I digress.

I design using IE5 but don't use proprietary code - for either major browsers. I stick as close as possible to HTML 4.0. I test using Netscape 3, 4.7 & 6 and IE 5. I should get Opera because that seems to be the third runner - distant, yes, but still worthy of at least seeing what the site looks like. All that on PC. Used to test with IE 5/Netscape 4 for on my old Power Mac until it died a month or so back.

I continue to use the 256 web-safe palette for background/text & link colours. (Unless I need a nice brown. Try and find a nice brown in that palette - it can't be done! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Also, be careful when using High Color vs True Color - you get weird colour shifts. And yes, those gamma differences between Mac/PC are a pain.

I have recently moved my personal computer resolution to 1024x768 (just got a new machine!) but tend to design for 800x600 and still take a look at in 640x480. If it's absolutely hideous or I get a horizontal scroll, I'll change the design.

cfn ... Jen
Jen Worden
Web Developer
www.meadoworks.com

[Erik Heyninck]

I do not particularly sympathise with MS either but I too have to admit that IE5 is better with CSS that Netscape, although the best to follow the rules is Opera. As it's free now (if you tolerate the publicity) there is no reason not to try it out. It is faster on my PC than the other ones, and gives a quite impressive list of favourites as an encore.
The only disadvantage I had with Opera is that is a little "strict". IE and Frontpage come from the same source and both are very tolerant with forgotten tags and doubtful coding. Where Opera wouldn't follow, IE simply "eats" everything.

Does any one of you think about colour-blind people? Or people that still use Linx?

By the way: if you have a graphic programme, and I'm certain you do: did you ever try mixing Websafe colours? Magnify as much as you can and then, like a painter (like me) mix another colour or even transparancy with the original by selecting pixels and giving them another value?
Works fine and you get more hues that the average eye can discern. (do not forget to include black and white in your experiments...
You might want to prepare them in advance like the Renaissance painters did and use background image instead of background colour...

[greyshade]

hi jen,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I continue to use the 256 web-safe palette for background/text & link colours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

just a small correction. i'm sure it's only a slip-on-the-keyboard for you [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img], but for the sake of the uninitiated on this forum:

the indexed color palette provides 8-bit i.e 256 colors, but the web-safe palette contains only 216 colors (combination of only 00 33 66 99 CC FF - hexadecimal values in the RGB spectrum)which will appear without dithering in IE and NN browsers — the balance 40 colors are devoted to system colors which are predictably different on the Mac and the PC (and the twain shall never meet!). for further reading:

Non-dithering colors in browsers

but then, having said that, there is a new controversy. check this out:

Death of the Websafe Color Palette?

regarding the gamma problem, it sure is a pain (PC-2.2; Mac-1.8). the only hope seems to be the PNG format, which apparently saves the gamma values with the file, and makes the necessary step-up/down on the user's computer, regardless of how he/she has set up the color profile. too bad, PNG (add its fantastic option to save alpha transparency) is not recognised on most older browsers.

cheers!

[This message was edited by greyshade on January 21, 2001 at 09:08 AM.]