The emperor's new clothes

[Cloud]

Right from the time I started using computers (at the age of 8 in 1980) and since then I have realised there has always been a 'mine's better than yours' syndrome, whether it was spectrum vs commodor in the 80's to sega vs nintendo in the 90s android vs ios these days and windows pc vs apple since time began. Now I have never been one to pick a side in a tribal fashion, instead I look for that which is best for the job.

I picked coreldraw in 1989 and tried illustrator since but for me at least coreldraw has been more productive for graphic design, there have been many moments when clients have questioned my design skill because I used coreldraw instead of adobe illustrator or quarkexpress; until I pointed out that I was currently designing for Harrods or Vodaphone using coreldraw and they didn't seem to mind. This was not because I hated adobe but because it was not as good/quick, I still maintain that photoshop is one of the greatest pieces of software ever produced for designers in all fields.

Then I discovered xara web designer after trying to produce websites like I produced graphics for print (quickly and with complete freedom of design) I have since the past few months discovered adobe muse and that is far more productive for me so I choose to design on that, if next year xara produce a version of web designer better than adobe muse then I will use that.

The reason I bring this up is that there are many, many people in the design world for whom apple is king, if you don't have a mac for design then you are not a professional designer, never mind that the vast majority of designers outside europe and the usa use windows pcs. I employ a number of designers and because they are used to adobe software in combination with apple macs (because that is what they were trained on and that is where their experience lies, they are quicker on them so that is what I bought. I have never been able to understand the mindset which says that as long as there is an apple logo (in this case) on a product then it must be better than everything else. To illustrate I have just seen a post on a forum where the OP (just out of college) asked which to buy; windows pc or a mac, and the overwhelming replies were mac, with no real reason given other then 'it's just better' or even worse 'it's what everyone uses'. I tested this premise of it being faster when I bought a G5 dual processor with 2gb ram (back when they first came out) and it cost me £2100 and as a test I ran an action in photoshop on that at with a windows pc with a comparable spec but which only cost me £700 and they both finished at the same time (the mac might have been around 1/2 second faster over a 3 minute action) and as far as build quality is concerned the G5 had to go back to the apple store 3 times, first two times was overheating and the third one was a failed hard drive. The pc ran fine in that time and I was still using it 4 years later.

This then took me back to another post on the same forum from a few months back where someone asked to see peoples desktops, there were hundreds of replies and they were mostly of windows 7 desktops, macs probably made up around 15-20%, I still can't comprehend why people say they use a mac and recommend others to buy one when they themselves secretly use a windows pc. I know for a fact that it is the case that design/creative firms/agencies DO use macs but these people on the forums are mostly people in their late teens to early thirties and can't afford to buy the macs and therefore use windows pcs. So I have come to the conclusion that it's the same case of the Emperor's New Clothes story, people have been sold 'the best' when it actual fact it's all a hollow promise.

I'd like to hear what others here think; is apple just selling a hollow promise?

[Crow Haven]

Using a Win 7 here. I've never seen an advantage or need to use an Apple system.
Now let the games begin...I need one of those popcorn-eating smileys.....

[pauland]

Until a couple of years ago I have always used PCs ( well, not just PCs, Unix machines, big servers, all sorts ). The advent of the iThingy made me want to have a Mac. They are expensive, sure, but I'd be really upset to go back to a windows box.

All this thread is going to do is have a load of Apple bashing, so I wonder what the point of it is.

There are people in this world with expensive cars and they love them. They get from A to B in much the same way as a cheaper consumer car, but I'm sure they make the people who have them feel good and happier in their lives. I'd say it's the same with Apple hardware versus the rest.

I look at the Apple kit that I have and really appreciate it and I really enjoy using my MacBook. I can't say the same for any other computer.

Cloud, I'd say if it makes your designers lives go more smoothly, then it's doing it's job.

Do we really need a "Let's moan about Apple" thread?

Those of us that have Apple kit are happy with it. If you have a PC of any sort and love it, good for you.

Enjoy what you have, I say and no need to moan about others' preferences.

[gwpriester]

Good design speaks for itself. Fortunately the clients I have worked with over the years have never asked what platform and software I use.

The Mac is a good computer. But then so is a Windows PC. But they are both tools. The computer and the software does not create concepts and design. The designer has to do that.

The entire Mac is the only professional computer is poppycock.

My dos centavos.

[Cloud]

There's no apple bashing here from me, I have had apple products from the year dot, I currently own 23 macs including five of this years apple mac pros.

The point of the post is the mentality that says it must be good only because of the logo. Your point about a luxury car is not quite right because a luxury car is that for a reason, you wouldn't buy a rolls royce if it was built like a lada or trabant, would you?

I supply macs for my designers because it will speed up the work and make me more money, not because it is an apple, and that is the point of this thread, buy what is better not because of a fashion. The problem with a lot of apple owners is they get defensive if anyone says anything remotely about the company, and that is what the post is about (hence the thread's title)

And what's wrong with having a moan at apple, tomorrow I may have a moan at microsoft, or perhaps google.

[pauland]

Well luxury cars are often prone to breakdown, you have specialist cars that are great to look at but might not have the reliability of a mass produced car.

I don't perceive my Macbook to be built like a Lada. I have an Apple Time capsule. Internally it has some strange design decisions ( I know it went "BANG").

I'm not going to say My Macbook is some supercomputer compared to a windows laptop. My Son has a Dell laptop with an i7 processor and my MacBook is a couple of years older than his Dell and has an i5 processor and has half the memory of the Dell. My MacBook flies compared to his Dell running Windows 7.

I attribute the difference in speed to the rubbish he's installed on it.

I don't worry about compatibility, I don't fuss over windows updates (our machines over the years have had issues with windows updates continually) like I use to, I'm less concerned about dodgy downloads. The quality of the screen is better on my MacBook than any other machine I've used. I like MacOSX.

I have a machine I'm entirely happy with. I like the look of it. I have a great user experience. Why would I be unhappy?

I'm not interested in whether Apple's markup is higher than the myriad of competitors. I'm paying for the end experience and the aesthetics.

The closest thing I know to Apple in the PC world is probably Sony VAIO machines. They again had some great design at a premium cost.

I have worked at a design agency - grown from a print shop. At that time I didn't use Macs, but they had plenty. One of the directors told me he didn't understand why people bothered messing around with PCs and different companies boxes for servers. As far as he was concerned he would just buy Apple kit and it would all just work together.

Cloud you can be unhappy at the cost/reliability/whatever of Apple kit. Your designers could certainly use windows boxes. Why not just stop buying Apple kit and buy PC equipment and see how you get on with the designers?

When I go and work at a companies premesis, I use the kit they have. I'd rather just use Apple boxes, but I have no problem with windows boxes. It took me a little while to get familiar with MacOSX.

I don't see what use this thread is. All that's going to happen is that the majority of TG users (after all Xara is a windows only product) are going to say they love Windows and their PCs and don't see why anyone would want an over-priced Apple box. They probably haven't used a Mac for any length of time (if at all) so they're in no position to make an informed judgement.

I'll believe Apple products are good until I find otherwise. It's not happened yet ( my Time Machine has been repaired ).

"I supply macs for my designers because it will speed up the work and make me more money, not because it is an apple".
How exactly does that statement sit in relation to your "emperors new clothes" assertion?

[pauland]

Good design speaks for itself. Fortunately the clients I have worked with over the years have never asked what platform and software I use.

The Mac is a good computer. But then so is a Windows PC. But they are both tools. The computer and the software does not create concepts and design. The designer has to do that.

The entire Mac is the only professional computer is poppycock.

My dos centavos.

Absolutely right.

[Cloud]

As I have already said:

I am not rubbishing apple.

I am talking about the incomprehensible attachment people have to a particular brand regardless of whether it is the best for their work, for me an apple mac pro is the best for the job so I bought that, if it was made by toshiba I would not turn my nose up at it just because it wasn't apple - and that's where the emperors new clothes come in to it.

I thought I was being clear about that but it seems I wasn't and to be frank it doesn't bother me, I don't have to time to argue a point on here, I was just interested in people's opinions about tribalism in tech purchases.

[pauland]

Many people form an attachment to brands if they have a good experience with them. For many years I just used to buy Dell machines - they were relatively reliable and easy to buy spares for and good value for money.

My wife bought a Sony VAIO and loved that machine. When that fell behind technologically, we bought another. The first machine did have a problem with it's power connection, but i managed to repair it. The second one had exactly the same problem and it became really difficult to buy a replacement part. At that stage her experience with the brand became tarnished and we've not bought another VAIO. The VAIO design aesthetic was great.

The Dell computers are generally fine. The hinges tend to break eventually and I replace them. They have a weakness with the power supplies and there seems to be a design fault that makes them prone to fail (or at least not be recognised by the laptop). The continued issues with the Dell brand has tarnished my opinion of them and their design is dull, dull, dull.

At one stage I bought my wife an ASUS ultrabook. Looked fantastic, build quality not quite so good and it had Windows 8 installed. My wife hated it and I sold it almost immediately.

My daughter now has an Acer Aspire. It's more portable - 12" screen and it's a nice design. No issues so far.

All of the current Dells seem to have quite spongy keyboards and the Asus did too.

So what's the point of all this? Well I think it illustrates that if people buy a branded product and have a good experience they often stick with it. It's not a question of the emperors clothes.

With Apple my experience so far is good and I will continue with that experience most likely until that situation changes. With phones I almost always bought Nokia. Was happy but the build quality seemed to be in decline. Currently on my third iPhone. Whole family has iPhones. I love the keyboard on the MacBook. It's not spongy at all. It's backlit. The family often come home to find me sitting in the dark typing away.

So my point is that if you have a good experience with any brand you are likely to stick with it.

In the case of Apple, your designers are entirely familiar with Apple and happy with that experience. Why would they want to change?

Apple makes fabulous hardware at a premium price. Why would designers want to downgrade their experience?

I think the suggestion that Apple is some modern version of the Emperors New Clothes is pejorative and untrue.

As far as brand loyalty goes (I'm not so sure tribal is right, though I can see where you're coming from), it's understandable, in all things.

[theinonen]

There is no difference today as Apple is just another PC with exactly the same components stuffed inside as regular PC systems. It is mainly a personal preference but personally I do not find Apple made stuff anything special and in my humble opinion, if you are going to run the same sofware that is available also on Windows, then there is no real reason to own Apple instead of some similarly priced high end PC.

I used to collect old workstations and other stuff like that but besides of Apple II clones, the only real Apple made system I ever had was Apple Network Server and even that was running AIX instead of Apples own operating system of the time. To me Apple was always low or mid range, while big boys used SGI, DEC, IBM and HP systems.

But some like mother and some like daughter and each with their own.