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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    Quote Originally Posted by csehz View Post
    That looks so great.. Also easily associates the impression that the 3D modeler programs are on 'higher level', not sure that is true. But... a 2D program like Xara could not compete.
    Oh, csehz! You make be want to never post another rendered model again on tg!

    There is no competition in art programs...there is only addition. I think I have 400 programs installed, cut that down to about 200 if you discount utilities, but I used everyone of them at least one a month, not giving up a single one (except when one of my $%^# Western Digitals suddenly crashed!)

    I have not given up CorelDRAW for Xara,and I have not given up Xara for (expensive) modeling programs.

    The truth is that my favorite art tools are sitting on a physical draughting table upstairs and they mostly consist of different harnesses of pencils, and 24 lb. ledger bond paper, kneaded erasers and a whole bunch of ink pens.

    Direct contact with what you're creating has it all over using a computer for beginnings to art, revisions, and I must say that the growing niche of computer programs I now use came second, not first, in expressing myself.

    I still cannot create the sort of expression in my mind's eye and my heart using graphics programs that I do with a sketch pad. Today, I do my finishing in Xara, auto-tracing my B&W work, and then doing the coloring. Before 1991, I used makers, the same as most other cartoonists and ad agency storyboard artists.

    Here's a typeface I conceived of over 20 years ago, but didn't have the technology to bring it to life, as life goes inside a computer! It might be another 20 years to complete it, because I'm easily distracted, but the point is: you see the pencil strokes and the ink-overs? They were the preliminary impressions I created, and I'm using Xara here to create accuracy and consistency among the characters.

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    Modeling is great: I've indulged myself in it as long as I've used vector drawing programs. But one is not the other, and you need to remember to use the right tool for the right job. I've been cartooning since I was 6 years old (my 61st birthday is tomorrow, so that makes it 55 years of 'tooning endeavors. And I'm not soliciting sympathy for my temporal plight!).

    And a pencil and ink are absolutely the right tools for cartooning. Modeling programs suck in comparison. The reason why I model a lot is because I can "see" three dimensions projected onto a 2D monitor screen, and have an innate ease of navigating this faux 3D space, which puts me ahead of the game. If I can draw it, I draw it. If it needs rotation, and different lighting and entirely different reflective textures, a modeling program is my choice of tools.

    No competition, csehz, and I must emphasize this. There are no "better" programs (okay, Chrome is better than Opera ), but only specialized tool that you collect. Heck, I have a superb texture making program that won't run in 64x space, so I'm using a virtual machine with Win XP on it just to access one stinking program I need.

    I'd be on CG Society and not TalkGrasphics if I felt there was one indisputable terrific piece of software. There isn't.

    My Best,

    Gary

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    Before of anything of course, Gare Happy Birthday tomorrow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gare View Post
    But one is not the other, and you need to remember to use the right tool for the right job.
    Yes sure that is the point.

    But please post these rendered models yet a lot because it widens the horizon at the where to go questions. Higher or not higher level but they look awesome. The same awesome like those 400 programs installed on the computer, what a cross experience/frustration they can build probably But it also dimensionates how valuable is just simple reading your opinion and conclusions and really thanks for any.

    For me even this Wiki model was both new information + language lesson today

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  3. #13
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    Ah, and excellent example from Wiki on how solid geometric principles fit together to get the entire picture of a shape.

    In addition to spline (path) connecting to make a parametric shape (they are smooth because they approximate a surface, and this is what separates modeling programs from CAD programs, where accuracy is critical). There is also a technique where you take a primitive, and object that cannot be reduced to more simple geometry, such as a sphere, cube, cone, and so on. And the you push, pull and twist on a selected area of the mesh to sculpt the shape you seek. I tend to use vectors to build stuff more, because I';m lousy at both virtual and real sculpting!

    But here's an animation of sculpting and re-sculpting a cube over time. Stupid animation, but shows a principle. No connecting paths were used to make the 3D geometry. Some modifiers where used, but that's stock stuff in modeling, and it requires very little user intervention or intelligent. They're presets:




    But this is animation, and a good Xara Artist could reproduce any of the still frames given some time. It's what you see in your head that dictates what hardware or software you use to bring ideas to life.

    My Best,

    Gary

  4. #14

    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    I have had no need to import anything into 3D software but am exporting lot of things from CAD into pure vector drawing software as they just can not compete when it comes to drawing things.



    Personally I like the SDS approach of modelling more but Realsoft 3D has also excellent tools for modelling with NURBS and both have uses.


    Below is a quick example showing how to make very simple coffee cup using both ways. (Looks pretty crappy but my excuse is that I did not touch any real 3D software for more than 15 years and actually seeing rendered images on this forum inspired me to start experimenting with things again.)
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  5. #15
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    There is already a desperately vacant 3D area on tg, theinonen.

    I began this thread as a bridge between Xara and 3D modeling programs, but you say that you have no need to import anything into 3D software, so we're kinda leaving Xara out of the equation with your workflow. And we need to occasionally support the diversity of uses for Xara, um, seeing as Xara pays the bills for TalkGraphics. Fair's fair, right? No selling out, just a courtesy once and then.

    I encourage you to try working with Xara splines; export them to AI files, or perhaps the 3D forum could answer better advice than you'll find here.

    RealSoft 3D seems to have a lot of the features of $1,000+ software,compared to 200€.

    Sculpting mode doesn't really apply to Xara import/export, but the first method, lofting splines, certainly does, because I own 3DS, Cinema 4D, modo, and have experimented with SGI and Houdini, and none of them have the drawing tools Xara does:

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    This is a collection of all the closed shapes I felt I needed to lathe and extrude to design a pocket wind-up toy.

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    Going the other way, if you are careful and observant of what real-life objects look like, with the right colors and a little help from Live Effects, you can make a totally dimensional drawing righ within X DP, most any version after 5.

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    My Best,

    Gary
    Last edited by Gare; 27 August 2014 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Code was feeling sick today

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    Gare according to your experience how complex Xara vectors can be exported and used in the 3D modeling programs?

    For example having a keyboard which I am able to draw only in Xara in 2D, is that real to export and try to extrude in the modelers? Just theoretically

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    XaraKeyboard.xar

  7. #17

    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    I have been experimenting a little with the trial version of the Xara and the drawing tools have not changed much since the ArtWorks days. There are some improvements on some of the tools but none of those have much to do with the actual drawing side of things.

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    On above picture is example how many ways can single drawing tools be used on wProCAD+, so there is freedom of choice to work the way you want yourself and not how the software wants you to do things.

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    Another example demonstrating how easy it is to add numbers to a clock or speedometer. Just copy point along a path and as every point has a position in sequence you can just automatically generate those numbers. Put starting position, step, quantity and then just select enumerate at points and those numbers will magically appear at correct position.

    Best of all everything can be imported to Artworks/Xara as a Draw file.

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    And here it is ready to be finished.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    Would it not be easier for the simple vase shape that you used in the video to use the Revolve 3D filter in Illustrator and If you give me a few minutes I will and do it. The main difference that I see in the video is the ability to give the rendered shape texture with a reflective finishes of gold, chrome and stainless steel with ease and lofting rendered shapes together.

    I have tried a few 3D and CGI programmes but found like most programmes that it took time to get the hang of them bar SketchUp which is even easier than Xara as I spent years both drawing and teaching engineering drawing for a living. With the 64 bit speed now available in our Xara programme would it not be nice to see and have the ability to extrude , revolve vector shapes along with mapping vector art to that shape and still be vector. Giving the ability to enlarge to any size without the loss of clarity and also with the ability to edit the shape and placed art.
    Design is thinking made visual.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    Promised vase not quite the same as I just battered it out without looking at your vase Gary
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    Last edited by Albacore; 26 August 2014 at 12:30 PM. Reason: typo
    Design is thinking made visual.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Xara 2D drawings to 3D modeling program

    I've used Illustrator's—actually it was a stand alone program for a while called Adobe Dimensions—quite a few years back, and yes, it does in vector format what CorelDRAW cannot, which is to revolve a profile. This one took me quite a long time to figure out and compose back in 1997—notice that Adobe's product doesn't self shade or produce off-object shadows...

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    Xara extrudes, but does so as a dynamic bitmap if you go to wireframe, and there is no lathing option.

    The short answer is yes, it would be simpler, but your approach leaves Xara out of the equation!

    We can't do that now, can we?

    I'd like to suggest that if you're good with shading, invest just a little time in a 3D program such as Art of Illusion, roughing out your scene with a cylinder here and a cube there, all in perspective—you export the crude piece as a bitmap, and then trace over it in Xara to bring out the finer details, making the illustration something you put manual effort into. #D modeling programs take some of the ennui out of making a scene because it does massive calculations for you, but I'm always haunted a little bit by the fact that I'm not 100% hands-on with a modeling program, that it did for me in seconds what I could have done myself in months.

    Lazy me

    My Best,

    Gary

 

 

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